The Bookish Hour

Why Did We Hate That Book?

• Jor & Fab • Season 1 • Episode 55

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This episode dives deep into the reasons some popular titles rubbed us the wrong way, exploring the dynamics of pacing, character development, and reader expectations.

• Transition into discussing unpopular book opinions 
• Analyzing the disappointments of "Scarred" by Emily McIntyre 
• Venturing into "Promises and Pomegranates" and its pacing issues 
• Discussing the oversaturation of the dark romance genre 
• Conversations about the challenges of miscommunication tropes 
• Emphasizing individual reading journeys and experiences 
• Inviting listeners to share their personal experiences with disappointing books 
• Encouragement to embrace honest opinions in the literary community 

Please rate and review us wherever you find your podcasts! 


p.s. if you didn't know this episode came from a different podcast, we wanted it here too for a intro if you will to a future episode so stay tuned! 


Cover Art by: Fabienne and Jordan
Contact email: thebookishhourpod@gmail.com
Intro/Outro music: Season Two: Ramaramaray by Aiyo via Epidemic Sound Season One: Sweet Psycho via TikTok’s Offical Sound Studio on Capcut
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Podcast: @thebookishhourpod
Fabienne: @oxonheart
Jordan: @sipsoffiction

Jordan:

welcome to the bookish hour with jor and fab. I don't think you have the space bar your perfume bottle no, I do now.

Fabienne:

I think here I was just blabbering but nobody could actually hear me, which I, which you know, for a change, might be good sometimes, because I do rattle on quite often I want to hear it all and I can't hear it if it's

Fabienne:

yeah, no button without the. The perfume bottle got it, hey girl hey girl hey, I feel like it's been a while. I don't know why, um, but no, actually I do know why, because it is. It has been a while. Like we recorded last monday and now we did it on a wednesday, so it's longer than a week, and I have to say I'm feeling that, like I feel like I haven't seen you in a while and I kind of miss your face.

Jordan:

I miss your face. I almost forgot that we didn't record on Tuesday. I feel like if we stick to Tuesday it doesn't seem that long, but like Monday to Wednesday, it seems like a long time yeah, even those like two extra days, it feels like a freaking eternity exactly.

Fabienne:

I was actually, uh, expecting you to say like um, uh, I forgot what, what you look like? Oh, just now oh well, you know, because at least I still get to see your face on instagram, which you went to like a christmas market thing, yeah, yeah, ironically, I only posted like stories of me going out to like a club and like a bar and so, um, yes, you know what? Let's just, let's just go that route. Um, I went to a christmas market. I know you did too.

Fabienne:

We'll come back to that as well because I want to hear all about it as well. Um. So we went to um, uh, dusseldorf, um, in, which is in germany and it's actually pretty close by, like only two and a half hours of driving, but it was raining like cats and dogs that entire weekend. So we came there and I just started like drizzling, you know, and the market itself was divided, like um, into I guess, quarters. Like there were a few different squares where, like there were a few different markets, so we'd walk from like a to b to c basically, but they were all, they were all over the place, they weren't in just like one area, a few different squares where, like, there were a few different markets, so we'd walk from like A to B to C basically, but they were all, they were all over the place.

Fabienne:

They weren't in just like one area. No, no, they were all just like cluttered throughout the, uh, throughout the city. And that's not even you know. That's okay, cause you have like a little walk and you can just have like your little snack, your pretzels, your what you call it, um, you name it and um.

Fabienne:

So we were, um, at one of the squares and it started like, like I said, it started drizzling, but it just started like pouring down heavier and and faster, and there was just this one moment where we just decided to like stay in one place and while that, like in its own or on its own, I should say it's not even like a bad idea, but it would have been, I guess, maybe funner if it were, like, you know, like one of those, um, uh, actual bars with like christmas decorations and like those you know, um, you've been like to amsterdam, like way back, and do you remember like when, uh, when I say like a brown cafe, do you kind of recall what I mean by that? Maybe, like those cozy bars with, like the old people behind the bar will serve you like a nice glass of wine and oh, okay, well, I'll, I'll, I'll reintroduce you obviously in april. Um, but I was expecting. But I was expecting to like just um, just plop down and just like a cozy type of cafe, a bar situation, but it was a very modern shisha bar. I can't pronounce it for the life of me.

Fabienne:

Um, I guess egyptian or like moroccan smoke, these like the big ones where you just have to share, like one of those. Do you, do you know what a shisha is? Maybe I'm asking you know? All sorts of questions and all you can say is no, no, I don't know, I don't recall I, I know, no, I don't know what that is, I'm a, I'm a, I'm gonna send you a picture.

Fabienne:

Give me just one second um, but moral of the story. Well, not even a moral, but just like bottom line. We just sat down somewhere which is pretty freaking modern and very classy and like hip and very urban, and it was so not the vibe of like a Christmas market. It was fun, don't get me wrong. It was fun with the people that we went with. We had a great time, but like it wasn't as Christmassy as I would have hoped that it was, so that was a bit of a shame though. Okay, so I have here a shisha um screenshot and sent per message because you can't, because my camera is all whacked um photos. But anyways, just tell me about your weekend, because you went to Boston.

Jordan:

I want to say yes, yes and I, oh yes, I think if this is the same thing, it's like almost like a hookah bar, like those are the things I think, so yeah. I think that's what it's called as well, maybe okay, because I, when you were saying shisha, I was like I have no idea, no idea, but that that kind of looks like a hookah. Let me see if I can now instruction.

Fabienne:

Yeah, it's just like a sheer, sheer pipe where you just like sheer tobacco. Um, I have to say I did it once when I was like, I think, 17, when I was still like um, studying to become a dental assistant. So that was a long while ago and we had one in the city where the study uh was and or like this um this college was, and I went out with a few girls from that class back then and, uh, I have to say it's a pretty fun experience to like smoke the shisha, because you have like all of these um flavors, basically what you have now with those vapes, you know, like watermelon, strawberry it's pretty, yes yeah, that is basically this.

Fabienne:

So it is a pretty chill, like vibe, quite literally, but it's not Christmassy at all so when we just sat down, there they were.

Fabienne:

Just they were playing, and I kid you not, I'm sorry, I'm totally like hijacking your boston weekend story. No, just have to get this out first. Um, they were playing 2012, 2012 music like justin bieber, katie perry, uh, kesha was on, so it was. It was a complete different world when we were in there. When we walked out, obviously, it was still pouring down, but then you had all the Christmas markets, um, so, yeah, it's totally not, I literally.

Jordan:

So you know how you looked at Shisha Shisha, however you pronounce it. So I looked up hookah. It's literally, and I sent you a picture. It's literally the same thing.

Fabienne:

Literally the same thing oh my god, yes, oh see, it says.

Jordan:

It says vape as well next to it um, but ours, like I feel, yes, we kind of have the same situation, because I wanted to go to like Christmasy bars and stuff, but everything the things I wanted to do, like I really wanted to do Snowport, which, if anybody in like New England that's listening, it's Seaport, but they renamed just this market called Snowport for the holiday season, which was really cool and it was like all lit up and I loved it and you had to wait in line for it, which kind of sucked.

Jordan:

So we waited in line for a little under an hour, but honestly, I thought it was worth it. Don't get me wrong, I don't need to go again this year, but doing it once, I'm like one and done, and now I don't need to do it again and it was really cool, um, but you go in and they have like food, drinks, um, and then like there's like vendors so you can go and like buy stuff. So that is like what was really cool and we spent like a couple hours there. But then, like afterwards, there were like lights that I wanted to go see, but they were like on the opposite side of the city, so it wasn't quite. It wasn't like everything was near and we couldn't just like walk, so like we didn't really. Was it that big then?

Jordan:

well, like boston as a whole is big ah like like so yeah, and snowport is just in like one area. But I wanted to go to like and there were like number one Christmassy bars but again they were like kind of far. So we went to like a few that were labeled as number one, but I think their number one is like places to go in Boston, not necessarily for Christmas, so like they were decked out. So I'm a little disappointed in that Cause, like I really, and like I know I want to go back, Cause I guess there's this like one it's like a hotel bar at like decks out for Christmas, and that's like all I want to go to do. So I told Nick I was like we have to go back during the week and just go there for dinner and so hopefully we can do that. But like I thought it was kind of cool that we both did like Christmassy, like markets this weekend, except yours rained, so like that.

Fabienne:

Yeah well, like I said, like even though the vibe for me was different because, you know, like the hookah or let's just call it a hookah purchase for, like convenience's sake, as opposed to the actual Christmas market, that was completely different, but it was still fun. But I'm so happy that you had a great weekend too, and indeed it is. You know, like we're on the Christmas, on the Christmassy track, so to say, because we're Christmas is almost up, christmas is almost here. I know, are you done?

Jordan:

like Christmas shopping yet. So to say, because we're christmas is almost up, christmas is always. It's almost here. I know, are you done like christmas shopping yet?

Fabienne:

uh, no, not yet. I actually went out today, um, because you know, like wednesdays are my days off. Uh, I went out to the city center and I got some stuff. Yeah, I don't want to say, just on the off chance, that my mom might listen to this episode and I can't, I can't, disclose what I got for you, mother, um, but yeah, yeah, I, uh, I got a few presents, but I still have a few things that I need to like. Uh, check off my list, have you?

Jordan:

have you done some Christmas shopping? Yeah, I'm pretty much done, but I'm done, thank you, but I have to wait for them to come in. The only thing is some of these things I ordered like well enough in advance that I was like they're going to be here in time, but now I don't think they're going to be here in time and I'm a bit nervous, so I might have to do like more shopping. But like I know I'm still going to have to wrap, like as things come in. I'm like wrapping them, um, so that's the only thing.

Jordan:

That's kind of stressing me out. At least nick is easy, because if one of his things doesn't come in on time, his birthday's in january. So I always I just like save it for january, then for his birthday, so it's not the end of the world, but like for other people, smart thinking, thank you, but that's like. The one thing I hate about the holidays is like the stress of like worrying about Christmas shopping. I don't like that, but like. So I feel like every year I try to do it ahead of time so that way I don't have to worry about it, and this year I feel like I finally have, but now it's waiting for everything to come in. So then I am still kind of stressed about it.

Fabienne:

Yeah, yeah, like you were on time this year, but now the rest isn't on time this year. Yeah, basically, yeah, typical Um, but now the rest isn't on time this year.

Jordan:

Yeah, basically yeah, and like Typical and for you, like are things delivered? Like right to your house, like right to your front door.

Fabienne:

Uh, yes and no, because we do live in like an apartment complex.

Fabienne:

So we have like the door, like the automatic door, like downstairs, um, but um, this is actually a funny anecdote, I have to, I have to insert it. Yeah, so we have like our, our, um, our delivery guy, like our postman, I guess, um, it's always like the same guy, like in this uh neighborhood, like in this area. So he, um, because I am a notorious uh web shopper, so to say in my you know jay's as well um, so we kind of like trained the um the delivery guy to just like come into like the apartment complex, because if you just like press enough buttons like someone will open the the automatic door for you from their apartments. So he just like places all the packages like for our actual door outside here. Um, and even when we like see him like uh driving in his van, if we just like come home from like food shopping or just like uh wherever, really, he just honks, he stops, he's like, hey, I got your packages here with me, do you want them? So he just hand delivers them on the street.

Fabienne:

I feel, like that's the best it actually is. I think I'm going to write him now that I think about it. I think I'm going to give him a Christmas card like happy holidays. You know, that's just the least I can do.

Jordan:

Oh, definitely I get like so frustrated here and usually it's not an issue except around the holidays, because, like the holidays you're buying, I refuse to go out and holiday shop.

Jordan:

If I'm out, really not even like to get like to, to really like, immerse yourself, like in, like the vibe of christmas unless it's like going to this like snowport thing like a christmas market, but like I'm not gonna go to like a box store like um like market. But like I'm not going to go to like a box store like um like their target, or like I'm thinking like a department store, because usually it's insane and having to deal with like the traffic. I just I hate it and I people get aggressive in those stores. So if I'm already in a store and I happen to see something for someone, then I'll buy it, but I'd rather just like online shop. So then it's like not stressful to like have to go out and do it.

Jordan:

I get that. But so I have all these packages coming in and what I hate is like our complex has a mail room and what they're supposed to do is, if they don't want to enter it, they're supposed to leave the packages outside the mailroom. Like whether it's like UPS, usp, fedex, like you know, like any serve like service, that's like delivering packages. This is not sponsored by the way by the way.

Jordan:

No, not at all, but like what I've noticed is like they'll enter one in but then they'll just put all of them in there, so like you might get a package number or you might not, and then at one point you might but like so there's been multiple times where I'll get one package number, so the one package was delivered, but I'm going through all of them because I'm like looking for one and then I find three others that are also mine. So it's kind of frustrating that like it's just not being entered so I'm trying to look for them. So I know there was like one time it happened twice where it was like one time I found three extra packages in there and they're just all over the place so you just have to find your name. And then there was another time where there was two other packages in there that were for me and it's kind of like frustrating.

Jordan:

Yeah, I get that and I get too that it's like everybody's like shopping around the holidays, but it's just like just don't do that, just leave them all outside, because then the person that works here will enter them all in. But if, like the post people do it, then it's like they just enter it once and shove it all in there, and I'm I get it because they're probably busy like needing to get to the next place to like drop off shit, but I'm like, well, then, just leave it out front and then someone else will do it.

Jordan:

But just don't do it like half assed exactly yeah, I get so frustrated with them and like package deliveries have you ever like left a complaint or something you can't right? I think you can't I mean I guess it would be like the office, but I don't. It's almost like what's the point, because I feel like they're not, because our our post people.

Jordan:

They're always different, like amazon's, never this name the there is one post guy who delivers the mail mail. So we have like a mailbox that each like letters go into, but like it's like this big, so like no packages actually fit in there, but like if it's that guy he's really good and enters them individually. But I've also seen another guy, I've seen a lady, I've seen like and so like those people I've never seen besides that one old male guy.

Fabienne:

I've never seen the same person twice you think that's kind of like backwards, right? I mean, if you have so many deliveries, you would think that those people would be like I guess um be placed in like segments of like a certain city. So you have, you like take on that area, you have to be there, you take on all of these packages and you just bring them to that place. So that way you will have all of the same like people. Plus they will have structure, plus you can always like leave a note for, like, I guess, personal preference in the sense of like how you want your packages to be delivered. They can take that into account. It's all like easier for them.

Fabienne:

The actual companies, companies themselves too. You would think you know, you know what thing, what, what do I know. So, yeah, it uh, I guess bottom line it does take, uh, or brings, I should say, a lot of stress with uh christmas shopping, even though it's online, there's always stress there really is, there really is. You know what's um stress? Relieving though, venting, venting and ranting about books. Yeah, I think that is maybe a nice segue to what we are um discussing this episode, yes, talking about which?

Fabienne:

today's episode um unpopular opinions. The books that we not so secretly maybe secretly hated, did not like, did not enjoy just a full-on. No-no um, I, for once, actually prepared. I have a list of you heck.

Fabienne:

Yeah, I mean I have like the names of books that I didn't that popular books that I didn't love, but I didn't like full-on research well, research is maybe too big of a word, but like, I wrote them down and I have like some reasonings written down sort of as well. Also, before I actually start gonna show you this notebook that I got from b. Like my colleague, she gifted this me uh, to me for my birthday. Oh my gosh it's so pretty.

Fabienne:

I've started journaling. I have like the washi tape, I have stickers, I have like stamps I I'm going for. Look at this, look at this holy poop, at this Holy poo.

Jordan:

I know.

Fabienne:

Do you love it? I am in love with it. I really enjoy it. Actually, I did I ever tell you I'm sorry we will get to the actual unpopular opinion on books that we didn't like, eventually unpopular opinion on high like books that we didn't like, but I eventually first. First, do you know about my notorious habit of buying notebooks with the intention of writing in them but then just like ending up collecting them, shoving them down in a drawer for them to never see the light of day anymore?

Jordan:

I feel like you might have told me that because I do the same thing, so then I read with you.

Fabienne:

Well, if I haven't or I did, this is me saying it again, but I'm actually pulling through now, so I'm writing in this one almost religiously, so, like I have now full produce, isn't it? I love them. I want to say metallic blue of. It doesn't matter, the people can't see. Um, you want me to kick off the first title? Oh yeah, um, this is maybe like a very easy guess, um, or maybe not, because I'm not really sure when this episode comes out. I think this comes out before, uh-huh, a certain book buddy, so I'll just hold it off for just now.

Fabienne:

I actually did not enjoy Scarred by Emily McIntyre. Oh, everyone was so loving and so joyful about it. But I read it. I think I even reviewed it and even if it was a mild review, I was holding back. I did not understand why the people just collectively enjoyed the book. That's not true, I can't see, because there was a morally great character that was like this very stereotypical badass female, which also I have started to come to hate the term badass female, but I'll come to that in a minute. Um, but the villain was the female main character in this book, which was actually the thing that got me to read it because you know it's a very refreshing take. Normally the villain is like I don't know some mobster or like, yeah, you know, the morally gray wait, wait, wait.

Jordan:

So then there was still a morally gray hero. Yes, so were they both villains?

Fabienne:

they, yes, they were and like I like, like I just said, it was actually pretty refreshing because the female had like a, had like um, uh, a revenge plot like she has. She had like a revenge plot, like she had like an avenging type of plot line storyline. So I was like, okay, this might be interesting, this might be cool, but the entire premise behind Scarred and like basically the entire series of those books, basically. So we have hooked to. You know, like the Peter Pan loose retelling, but not a retelling. Um, the same was with scarred, because it was based off again very loosely. So on the lion king, on scar, you know, like the yeah, but he was a brother line, true.

Fabienne:

So this was a really, really weird first retelling. The writing was, for me, it was awful. She writes in first-person perspective, which normally I like because I can really get into like the head of our main characters, especially if it's like multiple POVs. But this one was just not it. Like the characters fell flat. They were not rounded at all, they were repetitive in their behavior. Um, the storyline was was pretty straightforward, which is not even necessarily a bad thing. Um, because if you know, like if you can follow a storyline well, doesn't mean that it's bad per se. But this was just like, so on the forefront, that I'm like, you know, I don't even have, I don't even have an example, but it, no, that book was just not it for me. No, it was anticlimactic. Oh, those are the worst I know. I know Actually pretty proud of myself that I still finished that, though, because I read it from like first page to the end.

Jordan:

Oh, wow, okay, props to you there.

Fabienne:

Thank you, thank you.

Jordan:

Okay, well, I'll kick off the next one.

Jordan:

Yes, please. I. Everybody raves about Promises and Pomegranates by Savar Miller and I'm not saying it was bad, but like I loved the beginning and I loved the ending, from what I remembered, but the middle was just a bunch of nothing and I couldn't get into it. I couldn't. I tried. It took me forever to finish that book, but I did finish it from beginning to end, but it took me forever. And I would like and I want.

Jordan:

The thing is is, I think it's because I wanted to like it, because it is a like Greek mythology, not retelling, but it's supposed to have like the first ones, like Hades and Persephone, not retelling, but it's supposed to have like the first ones, like Hades and Persephone, but like and then I know afterwards it's supposed to be like other ones. So I really wanted to like this series. Granted, I read it when book one was only out, but I, yeah, I just I couldn't like it. And but it's interesting because I actually really like Savar Millers and Emily McIntyre McIntyres Be Still my Heart like their romantic suspense they did together. I really like that story, but something about pomaces and pomegranates wasn't for me and I will not be continuing.

Fabienne:

Yeah, no, I know that I think we talked about the Promises of Pomegranates one before. Briefly, like in a mafia sort of episode.

Jordan:

Oh, we might have.

Fabienne:

I actually enjoyed that one, but I do agree with you like that it wasn't anything special. Like nothing really was happening, like in the middle. There was like a build-up in the beginning that, like you know, like that kicked off the story and then it was just like them living um alongside each other. Really nothing even happened between, like the, the main characters, and then all of a sudden, like in the end, there was a certain um sort of like climax, what you call them in books. Right, you have like the storyline you have to build up, and then the falling action as well, etc. Etc. But then also this really weird plot twist of him like um having had, like an affair with her mother, yeah, which also was something that like really threw me off. Um. But what I wanted to say was it's funny that you mentioned Savar Miller, because I did not like Vipers and Virtuosos, which was the music romance, the rock star romance, the one that that's the book too right.

Fabienne:

Yeah, okay, yes, I never read it and that one is on my list. Oh, I think the takeaway should be that maybe Emily McIntyre and Savoir Miller I mean we're name dropping here right they just can't write separately, but when they combine like their powers, they write like a killer book yes, wait, have you read?

Jordan:

Be Still my Heart, I actually haven't. Oh, should I? Yes, I actually haven't. Should I? Yes, I should? Okay, it gives me a mixture of like no, just kidding, it's got that like spooky, gothic small town. Small like shore, town like lighthouse yeah sure.

Fabienne:

Yeah, just random names, nouns, verbs, yeah, nice. Oh well, all of those names nouns, they sound like they're right up my alley. Actually it's good, because lighthouse I am associating with does it hurt, which I really loved so I was gonna say it's a mix between gothic, kana and does it hurt?

Jordan:

but like now I don't want to say that it's like not that. So like, take that back, but I'm, I think I'm only saying it because gothic kind of gives me spooky vibes and there's a lighthouse right, not really you know, whatever works, whatever works, but you like that book, so so I'm, uh, probably have to add that to my tbr.

Fabienne:

Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, um, anyway, so, circling back, I I did not enjoy vipers and virtuosos. Um, they had, okay, look, you know that I have. Um, I've had some trouble reading dark romance lately, um, in general, because I can't really get into the genre really anymore. Like, there are only like certain like authors that I still really enjoy Montage, carrie, lake, brunix, obviously, kv Rose, you know you name it but all of these other writers that just like pop up like left and right and I try to like still read dark romance and I still do, I still do. Also, I'm rambling again, I'm sorry, no, keep it coming, but I feel like, um and I actually talked to, talked about it, um, with a friend of mine too that I feel like the genre has become so like oversaturated. Um, all of these authors and I mean that in the nicest way possible, like even myself, in a sense, like I started like this freaking Instagram account with the intention of writing a book. I haven't written any chapters since, like last May.

Jordan:

So, like you, still, it's always there for you to come back to.

Fabienne:

That is very true, that is true. Thank you for the positive spin. But because everyone is now like publishing left and right, I feel like what do I have to bring to the table?

Jordan:

um so, all of the dark romances. You have something to bring to the table and you know, like you're okay. Some of these people that are publishing books, their writing is not necessarily the bestest but, and you know, like your writing is definitely better than I feel like that's so mean.

Fabienne:

But this is a mean episode. We are bashing authors left and right as well. We're knee-dropping.

Jordan:

I'm saying like, if they're publishing, so can you.

Fabienne:

That is true. If that is the bar then I can surpass. I'm saying, like, if they're publishing, so can you. That is true. If that is the bar that I can surpass I'm kidding, do not overestimate yourself. That is rule number one in this world. But I hope that you. Thank you, though, for the compliment. That's really nice and actually pretty still encouraging. So, thanks, welcome, welcome.

Fabienne:

But that was not like that. That was not the direction I wanted to go into. It was more like because everyone is like publishing now, like you know, props to them all, you know, like all the power to you, but because the genre has been like, so I guess, ah, fuck, what's the word? Um, well, I, I just said it like oversaturated, right? So everything that we read is just like a copy of the same that has been before, just like with a different sort of spin to it. So whenever I read like dark romances now, I'm like I can't get into it because everyone thinks that they can write now, me included. But everyone is also publishing, so everything I can't really explain it.

Jordan:

No, I can kind of get what you're saying, cause like that's why I don't read mafia anymore. Like I don't read mafia romances because I feel like it's the same story over and over again. I feel like I kind of in the same way with you. I'm like looking at my books and I'm like, okay, some dark romance authors I will always continue to read, and or either I don't want to say dark romance, I want to say, like authors in general, that I will always read because I like their writing style. But I found that I need to like disassociate those authors from other authors, because I've arced a few books where I think I read them at a good time so I could step back and just read the story for what it was. But I've noticed that like if I compare authors like this, that story is a lot less I don't want to say detailed, but like it's a lot more simple where our favorite authors can be more detailed and more dense in X subject matter and these other stories are just very surface level.

Jordan:

But I've noticed like usually there's that cookie cutter type contemporary romance where it's like the very basic. All of a sudden they're going to fall in love. They say I love you, the climax happens and then, happily, ever after I've noticed those have been coming into dark romance and it will be like a 180 switch for these like characters to then all of a sudden be like they have trust issues and then be like, oh, I love you so much. There's that, yeah.

Jordan:

Then I've also noticed some dark romance authors, whether they're like new or if they're coming from the contemporary side, all of a sudden are like doing dark romance for the the I want to say like wow factor, but that's not the right word, but they're just trying to see how dark they can get it and how kinky they can get it and put it and calling it dark romance, which that's not necessarily what I want to see. And it's like a dark romance like we went into this before, so I'm not going to get into it again. But I I hate seeing those two things because it's like I feel like you're right, I I feel like kv rose, monty, j runix, nicole fiorina, um, yeah, the these people like how can I? How? Like I know it's, it's paranormal, witchy too, but how am I supposed to go from bone island that like such a good story and the writing, and then pick up so much depth, like multi-layered characters as well yes, and then you pick up.

Jordan:

I'm trying to think of like, and I don't want to shit on any books, but like, besides the ones we are shitting on, but like, I'm just thinking of like, oh, I'm thinking of this one book in particular and I do not want to call it out, but I think I think I know which one that you talked about.

Fabienne:

I think I think we we buddy read it actually even recorded one half for the, for the podcast, and then decided to just like scrap it no, so I wasn't actually thinking about that one, oh, but oh, okay.

Jordan:

But yes, we'll take that one for example, so we don't have to call that one out. But I mean, actually it was an arc that I got like a while ago that I'm like comparing it's just it's such a basic story and so it's just like so hard because it's like if I know I'm gonna get a story that is like one of those authors that we love, then it's like I'm here for it. But I'm also like these. But sometimes I want that like cookie cutter, basic, light contemporary romance. So it's like I love lc silver but like that's what her stories are like. No offense to lc silver, they're great stories and I'm obsessed with them and I love them and I'm going, I can't wait for her new one. But it's also like you know what you're getting into. So it's like I would pick her up in between these like really dense, dark reads. But then I'm like these dark romances that I pick up, expecting to be like these higher pieces aren't yeah, well said, you explained that beautifully.

Fabienne:

I hope so. No, you did you do, genuinely you did, you really did. I was looking for the words. Obviously, I can never find them, so I'm so happy to call you that you're, you know, like my teammate, my partner, my co-host, who does speak words. Well, I'd explain shit beautifully. Apparently no, but yes, I obviously wholeheartedly, 100%, completely agree, yeah, thank you. So, circling back to the books that we didn't like, just from the entire genre.

Fabienne:

Apparently, I didn't like that. One book I'm not going to name drop because that I feel like it's just too mean the one that we just spoke about but not actually naming it that we took as an example. What is this?

Jordan:

I was trying to do the title yeah, yeah, yeah, this one, yeah, gotcha.

Fabienne:

Wow, I'm so bad at charades. You never play that game with me.

Jordan:

I feel like we got to play it in April. I think that's just going to be so much fun.

Fabienne:

Note to self whenever she says do not play charades, play charades, okay, but yes, that one. I also did not like a certain buddy read that we did, which you know we have done multiple.

Jordan:

We have done multiple buddy reads in the past and one of them pretty recently I did not really enjoy and then there was also others where we were like going to do it on the podcast and then we recorded one episode and we were like we cannot do this. No, oh, you know, you know which one? I read this a long time ago. But one that I really did not like was everybody was raving about the cheat sheet by sarah adams. Do you remember when that was going around? And everybody thinks so yeah, I.

Jordan:

So I got really excited and, don't get me wrong, like I can do closed door, like romances, like that's no issue for me. But oh my god, this one was horrible, horrible, and I of course finished it to the end but I almost thought like I didn't know it was closed door. So I was like maybe the sex will make up for it, but like the miscommunication in that book was insane and I wanted to murder these characters. But it wasn't even miscommunication. I feel like I can handle some miscommunications if done right. If it's like I don't want to say anything to you, so it's like I'm going to just pine over you off to the side, like I get a little bit frustrated, but I can read it. This was. She told him how she felt and he was like, oh, really, and she'd be like no, just kidding. And the amount of times that happened it was at least three within the book I was like no, no, no, just no, oh god, I, I just can't.

Fabienne:

I'm trying to picture, then, why people did love it. I don't because the majority, and especially like of our core, click on instagram. Excuse me, um, I don't think that any any one of us really particularly enjoys the miscommunication trope. So then I think, why do why?

Fabienne:

just just just why I don't know, but I was going insane, insane I will say though and actually you just said it as well like, if there's just like a tiny sliver of a good miscommunication trope, good in the sense of like it's written well, it's like you know it actually has a purpose for the story later in the book, then then you know it works out, it's fine, because it actually um, adds to the stories like um, um, what's the word? Uh, complimentary if you will, but if you just add it for the sake of like, oh, I have to add in like this little trope, and then I have to put in another different type of ingredient to just make this a good book, apparently because it sells. No, yeah, ugh, no, okay. Well then, I guess you know, like, in that same vein, I'm just I'm just going to say I did not like iron flame.

Fabienne:

Oh yeah, no, especially with the uh, with um uh, with the argument that I just gave, like it just had like a bunch of like crammed inside this one book, Because I think Rebecca thought you know this might sell. This seems good Other books so does Stu? What if I just, like you know, put it all like in one cauldron, stir it, it together and see what type of magic comes out? Nothing, I tell you. Nothing comes out.

Jordan:

Nothing or garbage I, I feel I'm not gonna say anything because I know we don't want to do like spoilers, but no, I feel like we backtracked 20 years with the one plot line with violet, and somebody else literally backtracked us as society as a whole and women in general, and I was not here for that, nope and but like again, don't get me wrong, I'm still gonna read the next book. But, yeah, I don't like it. I don't mind either for it and I'm still gonna read the next book, but yeah I didn't like it.

Jordan:

I don't know either for it, and I'm still like fourth wing is a completely different book. That is what it is fourth wing, I am I am just so curious to where it went wrong I don't know, but like, still obsessed with fourth wing and I love fourth wing and I will die in the fourth wing hill, but then just iron flame is over there we, uh, we're gonna ignore that, even though it's canon in the series.

Fabienne:

You know we're gonna ignore that event and just move on to like book number three. Yep, whenever it comes out. That is exactly. Um, I have another title. Okay, give, give it to me.

Jordan:

I Hate it Hollow by Karina Halle. Oh no, I still haven't read it.

Fabienne:

Do you want me to discuss it or do you just want to leave that because you might still read it? Well, I do want to read it.

Jordan:

I don't want to give you like a bias to not read it you can give me like no spoilers, but like give me like maybe a little bit why you didn't like it okay, so like an umbrella argument okay, cool.

Fabienne:

Um, the characters fell flat. It was weirdly paced. There was no true character introduction to one specific character, it just popped up or he popped up. I did not like the thought process of the female main character. She was very juvenile, oh okay. And her no, I'm gonna leave it at that. Okay, just could not get into the characters. They irritated me immensely. So that was a no for me and honestly I would. I felt I felt really bad about it because I got it as an arc so yeah, that's um, it happens, this life, life be lifing, as some would say.

Fabienne:

Um, I have a few others that maybe you want to, yeah I okay.

Jordan:

So like a while ago I got, I read dance of thieves by mary e pearson pearson, I don't know how you would say her name, but she did the, the kiss of deception. But I read that like YA series. It was actually like a buddy read, with somebody else Hated that book, hated it, hated it. But I continued it Like I would have DNF'd it, but I continued it because I was buddy reading it. Oh, I hated it. We both hated it and I don't know why we continued it. And so I definitely did not pick up like the second book. But like you both, did.

Fabienne:

Why did you stop well?

Jordan:

because like halfway it was like it's time. You're never getting back jordan, I know and I regret every minute of it, but it was like a long time ago now, but like I think, like I, I think we both kept thinking it was going to get better and it just never got better.

Fabienne:

You were such a hopeful young woman back then.

Jordan:

I know I really was.

Fabienne:

Dancing with Thieves. Dances with Thieves, Dances with Thieves.

Jordan:

I think is the title.

Fabienne:

It sounds familiar. Is it fantasy?

Jordan:

Fantasy with Thieves, dance with Thieves.

Fabienne:

Yeah, oh, dance with Thieves.

Jordan:

Yeah, Pretty popular I guess familiar, is it?

Fabienne:

fantasy, fantasy, dance of thieves? Yeah, yeah, pretty popular, I guess, maybe I don't know. It's like ya. At least now I know that I can strike through that title on my yes, yes, saves me literally one book. But you know, it's whatever. All on, little titles count apparently. Um, oh, I have a fun one. Oh, I love, I loved, loved the series. But I hated throne of glass. I hated the first actual book in the throne of glass series. I hated. I hated sel Selina, selina, selina. I hated that it was third person, because I read A Court of Thorns and Roses first and then I started the do not look at me like I just killed you or like I killed you. No, no, no, come back, young lady. No, I hated the first book. I loved the overall series and I loved the second book. I really did.

Jordan:

I did not like the second book. I loved the first book In the premise of like as I'm reading it, I loved the first, hated the second and then I loved the third and I know a lot of people did not like third. I love the third and then I love them as they continued, but, like, I hated the second one. I felt like and I understood like why they had it in there because of getting you to the third book but I hated the second one. I thought it was too slow, that person didn't need to leave and but this, the first one I actually liked, I liked the whole competition part well, I don't like um, um, um.

Fabienne:

I guess de-ground my arguments for, like you know, like um, give my reasons not any ground to wow, I can't even talk. Okay, I just did not like throwing a glass. I hated all the exclamation points. There was a surplus of exclamation points in that one book. Selena felt like she was the bestest person in the world, which I really hate if you have such like an inflated ego.

Jordan:

But then again, it's I have to say um the. I lost it I lost my mic yeah, I lost it. I was trying to get it back, but I can't get it. I can't get it back.

Fabienne:

So we might just be like oh, okay, well then we're just going with the flow, you know if it comes back.

Jordan:

I don't like soon. I can like repeat what I said her. I heard the switch.

Fabienne:

Oh wait, I think it's back it like manifesting oh okay, yes, continue okay.

Jordan:

So I actually was talking to somebody else about this because that is the one thing. So like not to talk any spoilers. But Selina goes through no, like character growth, like everything she does is just perfect and amazing and her plans always work, where at least, because like, okay, okay, two different thoughts. So at least Feyre has this character like journey into strength through these books, where Selina doesn't Selina, however you say it and that actually, even though Throne of Glass is still my favorite series of like the two, I hate that she's just perfect and she can do no wrong, where at least pharah messes up, has mistakes, is working through things and then becomes this like strong, no spoilers, strong person, um, and so I, and but I do think I think Crescent City might be like my favorite series because I think Bryce um will have the same sort of things as Feyre, which I'm hoping even in book one.

Jordan:

You could kind of tell that sort of thing. So I do agree with you because I did not like that. But I still love the whole world building and all the other characters within throne of glass. That I right now is still my like number one series, but I, but I don't, yeah, as many times as I reread a court of thorns and roses. I don't think I can get myself to reread Throne of Glass, because I don't think I could put myself. Hell, no, I don't think I could put myself through reading Assassin's Blade, throne of Glass or Hour of Dawn, are you?

Fabienne:

kidding me.

Jordan:

Yeah, I actually didn't mind that one Right, okay, but and I would love to like tandem read it with empire storm, but I just don't think I will ever reread that series I think it's also too much of a commitment.

Fabienne:

Yes, although it won't be, it wouldn't be. Uh, it wouldn't hurt.

Jordan:

I should say um, to understand how all the stories might like link to one another that's true, or it's like you know you could reread her books and find things that you didn't catch the first time, like even one of my friends who's like reread that book. Um, she's told me things that, like you wouldn't like pick, you wouldn't have picked up on the first time because you didn't know that existed or would have been right, but like now, like knowing what the world is, would be able to pick up on it. So like that's kind of cool and like the one thing where she falls, like I would love to like reread that again, having other things in my mind.

Fabienne:

Well said, thank you. You spend it on explaining the dark Roman shit I get it.

Jordan:

Yeah, I've lost it all. Wait, but I have another one, I have another one, I have another one. Yes, okay, yes, and I'm going there, I'm going there. I loved the first two books and I don't know what happened in the third book but Fractured in the Twisted Tales by r phillips fucking name dropped.

Jordan:

I mean, if you knew what fractured was then no, but I'd be just one second to uh to get on board I just don't know what happened and I can't tell if it's because, like I liked one guy more and I'm not going to say anything, but like I liked one guy more and I'm not, and like, of course, like that wasn't the guy that's picked, and I don't know if it was like I didn't think it was that but I was like maybe it is that.

Jordan:

But then, talking to other people that didn't like the same person, they were like no, I still felt that way and it's like I don't know person. They were like no, I still felt that way and it's like I don't know. Like I think it the whole book could have been handled differently and it better in my eyes, and especially how certain things happened, which I get, what she was trying to do and how she's setting it up for other books, but I'm still like I think you could have handled that better and it's it's just so tough because I loved the first two books, so like when the last book kind of just like it sucked, it pooped, yep, literally shit the bed oh, my goodness, I think you kind of just like, uh, solidified my, uh, my stance on that series because I did read like the first two books.

Fabienne:

You gifted me the first book I love entangled yeah, entangled, and then it was bound, and loved that book. I have to say I liked it with the big butt, oh, big, um, like, I think like how exactly I like big butts and I cannot lie, or anyways, um, so, like the second half of bound, I, I think I already like felt something coming in the sense of not really sure where this is headed, necessarily, but, uh, I, I think I'm just might end it here, the series. And then I remember you reading like the third book, because you arced it and like you know the whole shebang and you basically told me what had happened. You know, because I asked for it to. You know, like, just give me an entire synopsis please.

Fabienne:

And yeah, I can understand why you said why are you saying that you didn't like it? Hate it actually? Yeah, too bad, too bad, and especially when you have like such high hopes, like you know, like you have such high expectations from, like either the finale of a trilogy or, like you know, like the last book in a series and you're just like hoping that this would be like the ultimate climax really to the series, but then all of a sudden just like falls flat, yeah, but you know it is what it is. You lose some, definitely, yeah, yeah, but you know, again, life be lifing, that's uh, that's how I guess, sometimes books are good, sometimes books are bad.

Fabienne:

That's just the way the world works, apparently, I guess. So, uh, uh, I have, and then I am through my list. Okay, I have one more.

Jordan:

I have one more I could say Okay, I also didn't like.

Fabienne:

Wow, I was debating whether to say love or like, so going with like From Lukov with Love by Mariana Zapata.

Jordan:

She writes oh wow, that didn't cut me. Oh, I really want to read that one.

Fabienne:

Okay, Well you still can. I'm not going to say anything about it then. Like with spoilers and everything or anything actually was the word I'm looking for. But it was a very simple book and I'm not actually meaning anything by that. Like I don't mean anything by it, but it felt a very the book read as it. Wait, how do I say that? The book felt like it followed a very simple storyline and, again, that's not necessarily bad, because you know. You know what you sign up for. If you read blurbs, if you like read into it, if you do some digging like into it, like the story will entail.

Fabienne:

But the characters all of a sudden, at the very unexpected point in the story, make a complete 180 in their relationship and it does not make sense to me, nor does it make sense to the story. There is no true, I guess, organic growth between the main characters. Organic growth between the main characters, it's just like oh, we're gonna name this like rivals to lovers. And then all of a sudden it's like but I actually loved you this entire time and then you never noticed as the reader that they actually did like one another. And I don't really like when a story isn't set up well in that regard, like I need little hints, I need little like snippets throughout the story that will indicate that there is like a growing tension between main characters, like there is something actually like you know, like budding between them, and this was just not.

Fabienne:

It fell flat so, but you should definitely read it. I mean, I still read it and also I I read it like in one day too, you know, and it's like four or five hundred pages. That was, you know, like in my prime time, when I was still reading books every single day. But you know, those days are behind me, I guess. But yeah, I did not like that, that book at all.

Jordan:

Anyways, what's your uh plus title? I also did not realize how dark my like thing is now, so now we're just gonna use my phone flashlight do you not have?

Jordan:

your, uh, your ring light. Well, so my one light broke, like the cord, because I used to spin it around itself, and so like the cord snapped off and like when I was mid using it. So I'm like clicking the buttons and I'm like why is it not working? Like is it not charged? And I'm like, no, my thing's charged, it should be working. And then I realized that the cord wasn't connected anymore. So like that was awkward.

Jordan:

Um, okay, so the last one is like actually kind of a series, but it's the new camelot or the american queen series by sierra simone. So like I loved american queen, like I loved that book, but I feel like it was the way it was. Like that book in itself, I thought, because, like Sierra Simone can write, she's like a very good writer, and it was like the tension. And then you're like getting introduced to these characters and then they're like so good, but books two and three sucked. But it was almost like we relived the same book from different perspectives, which you would think would be good, but it's not, it's, it just felt very repetitive.

Jordan:

Instead of like being like, oh, this is a new outlook, it was just felt repetitive and then I hated how much sex was in it, it was just all sex and like I get it like if that's like what you're signing up for, so like, hey, if you want all sex book, then like read books two and three. But I felt like there was no connection between the female character and the two male main characters. I feel like the two male main characters had a ton of connections and essentially I feel like the female should have died off and then the two male main characters. I feel like the two male main characters had a ton of connections and essentially I feel like the female should have died off and then the two males lived together for the rest of their lives, happily ever after, because that's kind of the way it felt and was written.

Fabienne:

Sounds like a bad soap opera actually.

Jordan:

Honestly, though it kind of was, and I just like I felt like the way book one was, I thought books two and three were just going to be amazing and I feel like it just like fell really flat because it book one ended on a cliffhanger and so I thought it was like setting up for the rest of the series and it just was awful. And a 37 minute sex chapter. I was like who needs a 37 minute sex chapter? It got to the point where I was just skimming great. Well, I was listening to it. So I just like tuned out the sex part because I was just like, okay, let's get through it, let's get through it.

Fabienne:

I mean I like sex, you know like I like sex in my books. But there is also a thing is too much unless you know again what you're signing up for and like make sense for the story and whatnot.

Jordan:

But if it's just like there for the sake of being there, because it sells, no, I've been noticing that I love the build-up and once I'm like here for that first time and then every time after that, it could be essentially a closed door and I'd be fine with it. Like I've noticed, I've been skimming them. So there's several books that I've read recently where, like after like the first time and maybe the second time, then I just start skimming the sex chapters because I'm like it's not needed for the story, like I can, I'm like, okay, let's get back to the plot, let's get back to the wow I am so happy that you're saying that, because same really do.

Fabienne:

We need to rebrand our podcast, the nuts and smutty book podcast I didn't think of that oh wow, maybe, what a realization. Huh, no, I'm kidding about the rebranding. But yeah, I, oh God, so you have that too. Huh, yeah.

Jordan:

I think I just need to read some slow burn. That's why I want to read Mari Zapata, Because I feel like she everybody tells me she's like the queen of slow burns oh, she, she, she is definitely. I feel like that's the story I need to read. Yeah, maybe maybe not that one, but I really want to read the wall of winnipeg and me, the wall of winnipeg yeah, I've read that one too.

Fabienne:

I've also read um, all roads lead here. I want to. Those are the three I have. Then. Those are the three that you're just gonna have to read and just you know, like make your own opinion, like create your own thoughts about it, because actually I think you might like them, because the writing itself is is pretty, it's okay, it's not like you know highbrow or anything, it's just very well, straightforward.

Jordan:

that's why I think I loved american queen, because it was such a slow burn and it was like they finally got like had something at the end of the book. Yeah, it's like this whole lead up of like basically like hands, like helping her, like stand up I don't want to give anything away, but like things like that happening and then when it finally happens, you're like ugh.

Fabienne:

Yeah, like toe curling, you know, like your neck hairs are, like standing right up and just like the chicken skin that you get and like the feeling and the tension. Sorry, yes, I think that's why, why I am loving katie rose's uh books lately so much, because she is now focusing on that tension and then towards that build-up and then, like the one, climax is just like ugh.

Jordan:

You know it's going to be so good, so good so yeah, I guess those were the books.

Fabienne:

Do you have anything more to add to this very, very interesting episode, or shall we just like call it a day?

Jordan:

I think I'm all set. We can call that a day, we can call that a wrap wrap wrap it up, okay. Thank you so much for listening and please don't forget to rate and review wherever you can find us so catch you next time bye.