Deep End by Ali Hazelwood

BOOKCLUB with SPOILERS

The Bookish Hour dives into Ali Hazelwood's "Deep End," a college romance about pre-med students and competitive divers navigating their intense chemistry and BDSM dynamic.

• Discussing the unique blend of competitive diving, academic brilliance, and BDSM elements
• Analyzing the sophisticated vocabulary and whether it feels authentic for college-aged characters
• Appreciating Lucas and Scarlett's unspoken connection and how they communicate through expressions
• Examining the slow burn romance and satisfying character development
• Debating whether the ending feels rushed, particularly regarding the diving storyline
• Celebrating the epilogue from Lucas's perspective that provides glimpses into their future
• Noticing cameos from characters in Hazelwood's "The Love Hypothesis"

Cover Art by: Fabienne and Jordan
Contact email: thebookishhourpod@gmail.com
Intro/Outro music: Season Two: Ramaramaray by Aiyo via Epidemic Sound Season One: Sweet Psycho via TikTok’s Offical Sound Studio on Capcut
Follow Us:
Podcast: @thebookishhourpod
Fabienne: @oxonheart
Jordan: @sipsoffiction

Transcript

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New Kitten Introduction

Jordan 0:08

welcome to the bookish hour with joran fob also recording no way , oh my god , no , no , we can like leave this in , because I was actually gonna say that he is the new little edition . His , his name is Nero Ro for short . He's so cute .

Fabienne 0:29

This is adorable .

Fabienne 0:31

You got a third cat . Yeah , he's so small , he's so small .

Fabienne 0:39

He really is .

Jordan 0:40

I think he's only like nine and a half weeks .

Fabienne 0:43

Are you kidding ?

Jordan 0:44

I feel like we got him a little too early .

Fabienne 0:48

Oh my god yeah , and it's a boy , and it's another boy . Yeah , adorable so cute .

Jordan 0:57

I'm obsessed with him . Um , I did . When did you get him ? Saturday , saturday , oh also , don't you ? Don't mind me , I'm gonna take a quick selfie .

Fabienne 1:12

Well , yeah , selfie , wait , wait , let me prepare let me oh , not , not with me in the background oh no , with you in the background .

Jordan 1:22

Okay , hopefully that looked good I don't think so .

Fabienne 1:26

I don't think it did , at least I didn't .

Jordan 1:27

But that's okay it didn't , because I didn't reverse it such nice hats on the wall though . Such nice hats such nice one more time , one more time , one more time , one more time , the people listening um this if you see my story , this is like where it's from . I just took a bunch , so hopefully , did you see my go-to pose ?

Fabienne 1:56

uh , it's always like the p sign and like still the duck face . I'm 31 years old and I can't , I can't , not , do , do it .

Jordan 2:04

It's , it's totally . We got to do it one more time though .

Fabienne 2:07

There I go again , it's fine .

Jordan 2:09

I love it Only because you see my like closet in the background . So I was like this needs to be a little bit better . You can't really . Oh , you can kind of see you . It's cute though .

Fabienne 2:22

But I wanted to see you , that's . That was the aim , just a little actually do we ?

Jordan 2:29

should we cut this out , because I feel like this is not quite . I thought this would take a podcast material yeah , maybe .

Fabienne 2:40

Maybe we leave it in , maybe .

Jordan 2:42

Maybe not . Who knows , the guess is as good as ours . Okay , one more time . Pop . One more time . One more time , okay , okay , stay strong For the people in the back .

Fabienne 2:54

Yeah .

Jordan 2:55

Yeah , okay , you can definitely see you better in this one because it's like I made you bigger , but it's still not the best . But I thought this would be a cute . Thanks for the consideration . I thought this would be cute because I was like , oh , maybe I should post this today on my story but tag the bookish hour and then reshare it . If you saw this story , then now you know when we were talking about it .

Fabienne 3:28

Exactly . Put one on a weight is two and two in English Stupid . Put two and two together , yeah .

Jordan 3:37

But what is your good week Fab ? Now we can actually get into this .

Fabienne 3:42

The important stuff , my good week . Granted , the week has only just begun , but technically , last week was good because I sort of decided to one sign up for another race , like a 10K race . Oh my gosh , that's awesome , thank you . It's still like a little far away , slow though , like in , um , the end of may . So I have a few more months , slash weeks to train not that I really have to train for a 10k , um that I feel like that sounded like I was fragging . No , wait , 10k . I run like 10k on the regular , so I don't really have to , you know , train for it .

Fabienne 4:26

But it's still nice because I want to cross that threshold of , like you know , um , joining like a race , to actually participate in a race and like to have the experience of a race , and I really haven't done any in the past year , even though I talked to you about it definitely before like hey , I , hey , I've picked up running again . I know that you have to , by the way , because I've seen you in stories , um , but I just want to I don't know , you know step out a little out of my comfort zone and I think joining a race , like as a solo runner , cause I don't like I I'm not joining like any um running clubs , which are apparently a real thing and like it's like up and coming here in amsterdam too , because whenever I go out for a run sorry , I'm going off on a tangent I see like little actual clubs of people like hobbing along like the canals and like just like having a coffee afterwards , and actually that would be so cool that would be so fun .

Jordan 5:23

You wait , are you gonna join one ?

Fabienne 5:25

no , no , no , no , no , I'm too awkward for that . I , I don't know how to like go on about that and , just like you know , literally join that like those people be like hi , um , I want to join and have a coffee after I . I can't . I , I don't know how to approach that type of like social settings , so I'd rather not . Um , however , that did get me thinking . I was like I also saw like this is somewhat related , okay , um , so the coffee club thing as well . After the running thing , I was like I've seen on Instagram also for sure that people transformed their kitchen slash apartments into like a home cafe and then invited all of their friends . Have you seen one of those reels ? Or just like the content that people like opened up their homes for like their friends instead of like an actual , you know , like night party , more of like a darty , if you will , or just like a marty well , I haven't seen those reels , but I'm here for it , so are you doing it or have you done it well ?

Fabienne 6:34

no , but I , I want to . I want to host one . So I've been making like invites on canva and like the coffee menus on canva . I still have to send out the actual invites , though , oh my gosh wait that .

Jordan 6:47

I know I it's actually like impossible for me to go , but please send me an invite and a coffee menu because I want to see it . Maybe you could like also put one in english for me to be able to read it . I can get like a few things . I'll I'll .

Fabienne 7:02

I'll do the invite regardless in english because it looks cooler in english anyways . So I got you . I want to see the invite regardless in English , because it looks cooler in English anyways .

Jordan 7:06

So I got you . I want to see the invite , so please send them to me .

Fabienne 7:11

I will . I have two mock-ups ready , so I'm still like undecided like to use like which one , but I think they both look cute Like one is more like artisanal , like a sketchy , like more mediterranean type of vibe , and the other one is like the cool kids club type of vibe , if that makes sense so you got to figure out what vibe you want .

Jordan 7:32

Your like coffee yeah .

Fabienne 7:35

Do I want like the popular indie one , you know , like with the people , with like the , the beanies , and then like the glasses and like the rolled up , you know jeans , exactly , yeah . Or do I want the classy type of coffee drinkers or something I don't know ? So yeah , my good week has been joining like a race , or like signing up for a race , I should say , and decided that I want to host a cafe type of day for my friends that is going to be so cool .

Jordan 8:09

You must take lots of pictures and , yeah , you could even do like I mean , this is like if you wanted to create content with it , but I think that would be like the cutest reel if you

Taking Podcast Selfies

Jordan 8:20

just did different , like videos of it and then put it over like a cute , like sunday morning slow type song . That's trending , of course , but I think that was so cute right .

Fabienne 8:35

So yeah , and now that I , you know , like , now that we finally settled in , like the new house which is not like technically new at this point anymore , it's just like home , just like the house um , I just feel that I have the actual space to host those kind of things . You know , like in the apartment . We could have done it like obviously , but it was just a little more crammed and you know everything was in the apartment , like your bedroom was basically like the living room , and now we actually have I don't know dividers , if that makes sense , like we actually have a living room and now we actually have I don't know dividers , if that makes sense , like we actually have a living room and like we actually have a garden to host that stuff . I want to say shit , but it's not shit , I want to host that stuff .

Jordan 9:12

So you know it's a little more real and and your garden is so cute that I think , if hopefully it's a nice day for when you do it , so then like everybody can just like sit outside and you can open those doors in your living room so they can sit outside or inside , and that would just be so cute . And you need to do this real so I can vicarious , like I can be there , like I'll be there in spirit , I'll just , I'll just FaceTime you , oh my God , yes , during the whole place , but you know , you know , like you FaceTime me and then just set me up in the corner and I'll be there with my little iced coffee .

Jordan 9:48

Be like hi guys .

Fabienne 9:48

Vernon is here too , please wave .

Jordan 9:51

Hi Jordan , except I can't understand any of you guys . No , say that one more time , but like a lot slower , okay , thanks .

Fabienne 10:00

Yeah , like a lot . Could you spell it out for me please ?

Jordan 10:03

Actually , can we just switch to english ? Might be way better yeah oh my god , I'm so excited for you thank you , that's very sweet .

Jordan 10:14

Um , obviously you're a good week yes , my good week I got a cat which I lost him . I don't know where he went . Great start , yeah . So I and I didn't really talk about so like we actually got two new cats which I lost him . I don't know where he went , great start , yeah . So I and I didn't really talk about so like we actually got two new cats . I didn't really mention it on this podcast yet , so people will get it here .

Jordan 10:33

But , like , unfortunately we lost Luna earlier in the year . That was really hard . So I might've gone a little ham on cats and I decided to get two more because Orura needed a friend and then I need like needed another emotional support animal . So we got Poe and earlier , like end of January , and then we got Nero , just like a few days ago , and I love them both so much . It's still a little testy here , like Aura's not too happy . She finally got used to Poe and now we bring in Nero , but the dynamic is a lot better since , like she has Poe and they're still good . And then , like the new kitten , he's really young nine weeks but I love it . So now we have three cats in my mom's like small apartment , but I wouldn't like want it any other way , like I think , like it's like for the best yeah , oh , I'm so happy for you .

Fabienne 11:39

He looked adorable . Looks adorable . I'm sorry , wait , is it a say ?

Jordan 11:43

is it the same um breed , though like it's the same sort of cat yeah , so it's technically a scottish fold , but like they're usually like a scottish straight ear or a scottish fold and we I wanted an all-black cat and I wanted a boy , but that was before , technically , we got poe , um , so we put a deposit down on him without knowing if his ears were going to fold or not . Like , we put a deposit and he was only like three weeks old , so like usually their ears don't fold until like eight , eight weeks . I think no , that's not right .

Jordan 12:19

I think like five weeks , five or six weeks , okay so it was kind of like right before we got him they were like well , he's not a fold , but he's not technically a straight ear either , because his ears aren't like straight up and down but they come out at like an angle so he almost looks like he has bat ears and it because it's like so cute like see how they come out at the sides so he's he's off fold , which technically I mean he kind of is oh my god , he is beautiful he is so cute , but he's actually like a

Fab's Good Week: Races & Coffee Clubs

Jordan 12:54

smoke black , so underneath his fur it's like white and gray , so it's a fantastic super interesting coloring .

Jordan 13:04

Look at him right in there , right , but he keeps stepping in his poop , so he's got litter everywhere .

Fabienne 13:13

Oh , fun yeah .

Jordan 13:14

Yeah .

Fabienne 13:14

Youngsters . You know they don't have manners these days anymore . It's just what it is .

Jordan 13:19

Exactly , but that he is my good week him and Poe , even though Poe was a while ago , but now I feel like I can finally talk about it . Um , I haven't fully shared on instagram yet .

Jordan 13:30

um , I will as soon as , like , aura gets used to this little guy I really want to do one of those , those reels where it's like have you , it's like not trending anymore , but it was a long time ago . It's like , I liked it , so I got it in a different color . I liked it , so I got it in a different color . I liked it , so I got it in a different color , and then do it for all three of them . I think I'll start looking .

Fabienne 13:50

I'll start looking for the real for you , because I think I seen it on tiktok not too long ago and I might even have saved it , so it might be somewhere like in a save folder , so I'll send it to you if . I find it yes , thank you . I'll be on the lookout .

Jordan 14:05

I'm like trying to be on the lookout too , but because it's like not trending , I feel like you don't see it as much anymore . But remember , we used to see it like all the time , like a year ago or two , yeah Well , not even too long ago .

Fabienne 14:21

I want to say oh really .

Fabienne 14:22

Yeah , cause I've been , um , uh , like . I fell down like a rabbit hole not too long ago and I don't even know like how long ago that actually was , but it might have , might have been two weeks , might have been four months , um , but it was like a ADHD type of like research in between parentheses , or like apostrophes , or however you want to call it . Um , and then obviously tiktok and instagram is full of that on like your for you page , and then turns out that people with adhd or like add tendencies . They look for comfort and like consistency , right to like something to fall back to , and they have it with clothing , and so do I , because you know , look like those tank tops that I wear , that you have to like the brown and the gray one literally wearing right now yes , I literally am wearing it right now too .

Fabienne 15:13

So , um you know , I liked it , so I got it . I liked it , so I got it . I have it literally in like 15 different colors and I .

Jordan 15:21

It's the best no , I get it Cause remember , when I went to visit you , I wanted , I got it in every single color they had , and then I think you even got me the . When they did the Brown one , you got me one and sent it to me , which I'm so grateful for . I had to , I had to . It makes me so mad that , like my H and M , like the U ? S brand doesn't have them , or else I could just like it S brand doesn't have them , or else I could just like it's weird it's really weird .

Jordan 15:46

I also . Okay , sorry side note , I swear we can get into the reason of this episode later , later . Eventually we will . It will happen sometime . But you know , those drops that the tanning drops that I got you like showed me and I got , which I'm obsessed with , I love them . But so I finally ran out , like the other day and I know . But I went on Amazon and I found them and I think they were coming from Europe , but I'm not sure . But they're different . They have the same packaging , the same bottle , but you , when I pour them out onto my like hand , yeah .

Jordan 16:30

Put them on my face , the coloring's different . Oh shit Right , they don't smell different . I don't think like that . It like looks too . I actually put them on after my shower , but I don't . So I don't think it like totally is a different , like I think it's still the same , I think it's a different formula , but still seems to be doing the job . I want it to with tanning my face progressively . But I was so like sad that it was like a different color , so like clearly still not the same .

Fabienne 17:03

So strange I could , I could be able be on the lookout for that too and maybe like send you , like you know , a few packages . So you mean I'm like half the original , so to say you wouldn't be , opposed no no I wouldn't be opposed .

Jordan 17:16

And same I remember too , like you were like I'll let you know if there's any tank tops in new colors and let and like get them for you .

Fabienne 17:22

And I was like , okay , please let me know , because I will we'll PayPal you for all of all of you don't have to PayPal me for that stuff , but , like the tank tops , I think they're going to be like discontinued , because they're either running out of , like all , but they haven't like announced any new colors .

Jordan 17:42

Should I get like another one in each color before they get discontinued ?

Fabienne 17:46

I think , let me quickly see . This is such a fun episode . All the girls would be like I get it , I get it . You guys just talk clothes and like makeup and , like you know , skincare . You know there's a reason for this episode .

Jordan 17:57

Um , wait , h&m , um it also doesn't help that I made like a nice coffee too , and so it's like kicking in oh , like I feel like the energy trembling .

Fabienne 18:10

Yes , I literally just finished two , so that might be fun as well . We have yet to see . Um , okay , I have here sports bra with a dry move medium support . Um , they have a dark gray , only in triple xl . They still have black in your size . They have marine blue and they have turquoise which looks more like a muted gray , sage kind of color . You want to have that one .

Jordan 18:48

I might , I might actually pick , I might . Yeah , I actually might get whatever they have left in my size . I might get one of those .

Fabienne 18:57

Okay , so you want to have like a turquoise , I think it's . Wait , I'm going to screenshot it first and then you can decide whether you like the color , yes or no . Um , so this is the turquoise and this is the marine blue photo , and black is just black .

Jordan 19:26

so wait , I kind of like them and yeah , black black is back . I might , yeah all three . I think so , but yeah , we'll do it after this episode , because now I feel like I feel like now we should like wait , because I also want to double check on the size .

Fabienne 19:49

Fine , okay , okay , george . What are we talking about ? What are we talking about ?

Jordan 19:56

What are we talking about ? We are talking about Deep End , or like Fall of Things , deep Dive by Ali Hazelwood .

Fabienne 20:04

I'm so sorry . Okay , in my defense I wanted to create like a tagline for it . So I was like we're gonna like deep dive into deep end , but then I forgot that it wasn't the tagline and it just went without us . You know , it's gonna be the title , I think . I think it was the title , I think it was called deep dive , and then you said maybe we should call deep end .

Jordan 20:27

Oh , yeah , yeah , stupid so when you said , when you sent me those edits , I saw them like really small on my like watch and because we did the episode deep dive into I won't say what it's a surprise or depending on I don't know where it's coming in this schedule . Um , so I thought the edits were for that episode and I was almost going to be like , um , fob , I feel like these edits would work so well for deep end . And then I realized , oh no , like she wants it to be for deep end , my bad , and I was like my bad I . I also would like us to point out that we were gonna do this as a two-parter , but I feel like it needed to support fob , support you . I just went like third , third person there first we really should support fob .

Jordan 21:21

Yes we really should , everyone should , but in , you just were like obsessed with reading it and you didn't want to stop . I'm kind of glad , so sorry . I'm kind of glad that you okay , we , we didn't stop there , because I feel like the part that we would have stopped at would have been like brutal . For today I know , and I feel I finished , I finished my part like Friday night , like the part one , what would have been one that waiting these four days would have been brutal .

Fabienne 21:56

Honestly same . Like I finished them up until the part , I think , maybe like Saturday or so , like just like when the weekend started and I thought , if I have to stop now , I'm going to tear my hair out of my head , cause I really have to . Just I can't ,

Jordan's New Cats

Fabienne 22:10

I have to , I have to continue . So I texted you like I can't stop , and then you offered this golden solution , like , do you just want to continue ? Do you just want to ? You know , like , do this , like as like a one-parter instead of , like you know , split up into two parts ?

Jordan 22:25

I'm like fuck yes , fuck yes , thank you , yes , but I'm so glad we did . I actually really enjoyed this story . I thought it was so good I thought too .

Fabienne 22:37

I thought so too . The thing is I there are a few I obviously , because I I do have a few things that I want to like note on Me too .

Jordan 22:46

Me too , like I didn't read your review Plus , I haven't posted mine yet because I wanted to say them on the podcast first .

Fabienne 22:53

But okay , smart , um , no , let me just like point out all the great things . I love the characters . I love the storyline . I love Lucas , I love Lucas , I love Lucas . I mean , that's a given . I also loved Penelope . Actually , what I love Penelope ? There are a few things that I was really bothered by when it comes to her , but I loved her as a character character in the book , because it also I'll come to this in a second . I know that Allie is , yeah , allie right , allie Hazelwood . I know that Allie is like known for her like intelligent , like characters right , because she , I think , has also like , studied a STEM degree or whatever .

Jordan 23:47

Um , I think I have I might be wrong .

Fabienne 23:49

I mean , it makes sense she has like I think she has like actual field practice and like knowledge in that sense , um , but I love that she writes these people because you don't really come across those types of characters often . I'd say , um , in rom-com . I feel like the characters are more like not slapstick , but just like very simplistic type of characters . I say very subtly , um , but there is like a rich layer to like Scarlet and also to Penelope , but also to Lucas , and they're just like smart , smart and I don't know why , but it really , it really made my academic heart glow sort of um . I like the . I really enjoyed like the academic background , I really enjoyed the like the drive of like them competing , like in the nationals , like the worlds , like the , even like the , the olympics you know , like they're training for , like their divers team , for like the swimming team . I didn't , I didn't think that I would enjoy this book so much , because you know how , you know my stance on bride yes , but so I okay .

Jordan 24:56

But like , sorry , I wanted to go based . No , no , no , no , you go , I do . I did really enjoy that . They they are very smart cookies . But I'm also like this is a college romance and the words that they used . I was like I didn't know what half of them fucking meant Me being in my 30s . I'm like googling shit , being like what , and I was like what fucking 21 year old would use this word . So I did , but I did appreciate , like the more complex characters , how they're very smart . But I was also like you are in college and I don't , besides the biology words like those made sense because she's studying it , she's pre-med , I get it . But like the overall dialogue with the big words , I was like I don't fully understand why you went in that direction . But I do appreciate the woman in stem , biology , pre-med , all that stuff . So I get that , but I just the big works in between dialogues .

Jordan 26:04

It's like yeah , like you are a 21 year old college student . I don't know a 21 year old college student that would talk like that I mean sequestered , you know , like acquiesce .

Fabienne 26:15

I have no idea .

Jordan 26:16

I had to like a thesaurus for that shit yeah , yeah , I was like , but I did find like moments like and I okay and like I'm just taking it like from an example so , like my best friend , she was pre-med .

Fabienne 26:29

Yeah .

Jordan 26:29

And so she had like , so she would talk like with , like science and like those terminologies and I thought that like that like made sense . But like in her everyday dialogue with like me or other people , she wasn't using big words . She wasn't day dialogue with like me or other people , it she wasn't using big words .

Fabienne 26:47

She wasn't and I don't know she was maybe dumbing it down for me , but like I was like guys , jordan is visiting , jordan is visiting .

Jordan 26:52

Please , please , lower the rate of your phone please yeah yeah , she doesn't know those like 20 letter words uh , jordan , this is a door , sorry , no yeah , but like , but I still like appreciate , like I loved . I loved that it was like a diving swimming , like dynamic and like training for the olympics and I thought it was kind of cool that he was also pre-med yeah and yeah , okay . I loved it , I did love it .

Fabienne 27:31

Well , I just thought it was really interesting in a very positive way , because normally when you say that like the general , you it's more of like I mean this was interesting . But no , I thought it was really interesting how she learned , just I want to almost say like a regular college romance , but made it , like you know , a little bit grittier , a little bit kinkier . I thought that was really . I thought how , how , like , how do you come up with that shit ? Like , how do you come up with oh , you know , I'm going to write about like two people who compete in sports and college but also they're heavily into BDSM . I mean , how do you come up with that ?

Jordan 28:07

Yeah , and that was , I guess , the other thing . I'm like what 21-year-old knows that this is what they want with sex . I feel like it could have been played around with more . That I was kind of like why I think you could have dived into this story and having them be in their like 30s or 40s and it would make a little bit more sense . But it was almost like he was 15 and he knew he wanted to like tie someone up and she was

Deep End Book Discussion Begins

Jordan 28:37

15 and she knew she wanted to be a submissive , like I don't know Like . That was like a little less believable for me too , but overall like and like . So my rating on this is like four point five . I still overall love this story , but there were just a few things that I'm like . This is knocking it down a little bit for me , but real Because I agree .

Jordan 28:58

Yeah , but I do like that . There was like the Amsterdam in there . I thought that was cool , I know .

Fabienne 29:04

I know , I know I felt like really well , like represented right there , as you should , but then I didn't really fully grasp , like the it's not like the author's note where she says like this for the Amsterdams , because I thought oh something really , really blown up big is going to happen in , like you know , like the scene .

Fabienne 29:25

But it was just I say again between air quotes , it was just like the um , the balcony scene , like there wasn't like a really grand sort of chapter , just like the possible talks about the future , maybe like what do you want in a she possibly wanted in life ?

Jordan 29:44

yeah , I kind of agree , like I was . I think I was expecting a little bit more from the amsterdam section , just because this one it has to be for the amsterdams . So I agree . Yeah , I don't fully understand that either . I do think the ending was a bit rushed , just because I was like I would have loved to see you , Like I feel like there's this buildup to the Olympics and then it's like like it doesn't really happen , Like it's just kind of like and I understand , like eventually you have to end it and like I know that the whole premise of the book isn't technically the Olympics and she like overcomes , like her inward dives and things like that but I , I don't know , like , I still think the ending was rushed .

Jordan 30:32

I don't know , like , how you would end it , but I still don't I think it's also like a really like .

Fabienne 30:38

It's . It's a risky type of like trick . You know , when you write a romance like a rom-com , well it's not a rom-com but just like a light romance . But they're not like set in like the college , you know , like college age , sure no , it's just like a college setting . And then these people , they're like what ?

Fabienne 30:55

Early mid-20s , early to mid-20s um , I thought like wait , let me just rephrase this . I love the storyline , but there wasn't an actual like . When you look at a story and the sense of like how you write it , there's like the beginning , there's like the midsection , there's like the rising action , the climax , and then the falling action . Right , I thought that was a bit jumbled in this book because I couldn't really pinpoint what the big climax was . But then I thought it's because to really pinpoint what the big climax was . But then I thought it's because I thought this was going to be like the inward dice . And then she overcomes , like this , you know this , this mental block that she has , and then she performs really well at a really , you know , like either the nationals or just like the olympics , like you just said .

Fabienne 31:39

Yeah exactly , but the climax in this book , or like the story , climax that Penelope went off on her .

Jordan 31:48

Yeah . And then like I'm like that's such a weird . And then it was like I feel like there was so much focus on the inward dives and the block and it almost seemed like the romance took like a back burner to that . Like the romance took like a back burner to that , yeah , but then like basically at the end it was like she already overcomes the block in a way that she was like , okay , I'm gonna make the climax being the romance . So it's basically penelope like going back on her , not back on her , where they like I don't want to say penelope lying , but like like her being like oh , how could you do this to me ? Even though they were broken up .

Jordan 32:28

You know Lucas is like right there . But then it was like interesting , because Scarlett was like I can't do this , like stop , yeah . So then it was like and then he leaves and he's in like Sweden and she goes and gets him and he's like I do appreciate , I do like the ending in the way of she goes and she does this like big grand gesture of going to Sweden to see Lucas , and Lucas is like basically you're forgiven , I appreciated that only for the fact of what we have , as Lucas is like an obsessed male main character . So , of course , when she shows like initiative and is like I want to be with you , he's like , oh yes , of course . Like finally , you like acknowledge it , you , you realize like we're in this together and so he's like I can't be mad at you because I just know you exist , just knowing or reminded that you exist . So I do like the ending in that way , but I agree with you of like reaching the climax doesn't fully , it's like jumbled , like you were saying for this book yeah , like I , I , yes , I think .

Jordan 33:43

I think the inward dive would have been the better climax and have the romance be on the back burner for the climax , just because I feel like , technically , planellope and him were broken up so like this was kind of like , almost like it's like it .

Fabienne 34:01

It had the potential to reach this like bigger climax , but it didn't because of the plot line already yeah so instead of like going here , it was like here yeah , am I a child for thinking every time that I said climax lucas and scarlet , lucas and scarlet . I love , though I mean what we just said , like if we had split this episode into two parts . I love the build-up to when they finally do it .

Jordan 34:34

I love this patient yes , I also , I also love to , I okay . So I kind of loved the part where they do it and then he like doesn't contact her for like days and she's like , what did I ?

Jordan 34:50

do wrong like , because I feel like and like I thought that was so her to like second guess it , but she's like I know this was just sex , so like in a way , it's kind of this miscommunication , but it works for these characters . And then then they go out with his brother and his brother starts being like oh , I literally wrote it down . But like his brother is like oh , he doesn't .

Fabienne 35:17

Oh , my God , yeah , no no , no , I know I know which part you're talking about with the control part , right , like he used to do this all the time he was younger , like with sweets or just like , yeah , he'll sleep on the floor because his bed was too comfortable .

Jordan 35:30

He took cold showers for a year , so I was like , oh my gosh , this is why he hasn't contacted her , because he enjoyed it so much that he's like I need to restrain myself .

Jordan 35:41

And he and she was like how long , myself ? And he and she was like how long , how long did you give yourself ? And he's like 15 days . And she's like Well , I guess it's a couple days . And I loved the fact for her being like you know well , how did you know what ? I would forgive you ? How , how do you know that I would let you come back ? And he's like I didn't . And she's like Goodbye , lucas , and I was . I love that . I was like yes , yeah , because he didn't Put yourself first .

Jordan 36:04

Exactly , and then he had to grovel a little bit , being like I'm sorry , I owe you an apology , and I was like , yeah , you do , you can't . And he's like I've never had to do that where another person was involved , and I was like , yes , lucas , yes .

Fabienne 36:18

And then I love , though , how , like , how vocal , guess , um , mature , I almost want to say , even though it was like a childish move , you know , like to go somewhere . This is baby's first ghosting . This is baby's first ghosting . I don't know what to do . What do I do ? What did I do ? Rob ? Like that was actually really cute , but also very well not relatable , because I am a ghost , luckily , um , you know , since I live with the fucking man

Smart Characters & College Setting

Fabienne 36:43

but , I just meant to say what no , it's gonna be like it's .

Jordan 36:50

It would be really hard if he goes to do because you just come home and be like babe , just not look at me walk up and down the stairs like um , but um .

Fabienne 37:01

I like that part and I think it could be relatable in that sense . Does that make sense ? I don't know , but I loved it . I don't know . I just I think honestly , wait , I'm really rambling now , but I think I'm actually going to give bride another chance too , but we'll talk about that another time oh my gosh , that makes me so happy . I'm excited for mate .

Jordan 37:25

I'm so excited for mate because I really like the idea of mates . Oh , you know did you also see that she has like another book coming out in may ? I feel like that .

Fabienne 37:35

So I think I saw that I'm like kind of excited for that isn't that going to be like a second book in another series or something ? Because I saw some people like screenshotting like this picture on goodreads with where one was called like untitled 2025 and then on the same date it was going to be was also untitled , but then it said that it was part of a series which I don't recall .

Jordan 38:01

Then it was like hashtag number two or like number two , so I don't know but that that might be for me , because I know meat was a couple different things , being like number two it's possible , but this that could also be for the one that's coming out in May , um , but I'm not sure . But like , maybe that's another book club one if we're both into it , because I feel like I think I have a feeling that her books , like her later books , are the ones for us .

Jordan 38:32

Because I think I don't think I would ever read her earlier books , like the love hypothesis , love on the brain , love theoretically except someone did tell me that love theoretically is like pretty good , but I think they're those first three are a little too much on , like the miscommunication where I feel like bride deep end and I'm hoping mate are like a little more our speed . And so I'm very excited for like future books of hers for like future books of hers . I'm curious , though , because you know , you know my stance on like illustrated covers . Yeah , do you ? Don't like this one ?

Fabienne 39:15

I actually do like this one because , regardless of like the insinuation that's going on on , you know , like the cover , you know like the the wink wink type of situation . I like the colors , I like just the way it's been illustrated . But what I don't like it's when , when it looks like a comic book . So when you have , for example , love , theoretically the love hypothesis , or that's literally a comic book .

Jordan 39:41

I love it , though I'm like I actually of course you do but I but my thing is is I love this more than her her covers . I know what you mean with the other covers , like I don't it looks , so ya yeah , I don't love the faces . I like that you can't see faces in this , but I actually love the layout of this . Is it a hardcover ? Oh , it is a hardcover , yeah Time to get wet . It's probably smart .

Fabienne 40:09

You suck on those apps , honey .

Jordan 40:11

Oh I , they're there .

Fabienne 40:16

They're hard .

Jordan 40:16

So I do love this kind of cover , but I know what you mean . Like her other covers , like her Love Hypothesis cover , I don't love . I don't totally love Bride's cover , but I love the content . Have you seen Maze's cover ? No , it's on Goodreads , do you ?

Fabienne 40:40

like it .

Jordan 40:42

Oh yeah , no , oh Wait , I'm so confused not particularly .

Fabienne 40:52

Oh . So it might be like a kindle rate for me , you know , when no one ever sees what I'm reading , not that it matters .

Jordan 40:58

I mean , I think this one's like definitely by far her like best cover in my opinion . Yeah , yeah , and I'm so fucking glad this wasn't titled wet . I don't , I don't like that title . I don't like that title at all , deep end is so it actually is .

Fabienne 41:16

It sounds a little bit disgusting , actually wet , you know exactly like I feel like not a good kind .

Jordan 41:23

Yeah , like I think , especially the way she had it spelled like , and then like , even like probably smut decided to put on the back , like time to get wet , and I'm like no , absolutely , not absolutely not . I think that's just like unpopular opinion , because I think everybody was like , oh , it should have been titled wet . And I'm like absolutely not everybody wanting it to be titled . What ?

Fabienne 41:49

you go suck a dick . Yes , wait , wait , I actually , I actually , actually , actually , I think I took some . I , okay , so you know what got lost all my pens , pencils and tab during the move , so I still have to buy some . So I had to go back and forth with , like , the kindle edition and taking photos of the paragraph , so I hope that I can find one . Um , um , I think so . For some reason .

Fabienne 42:27

I found this excerpt apparently interesting because I took a picture of it , um , it's , and , but of course I didn't take a picture of the fucking page number um , but it's um , at their like at her coach's house , like when he does like his yearly like barbecue thing . Um , I loved when she kind of like rescues lucas from , oh , her coach's mom . Yeah , like the interrogation and then , like I love the way that they like were speaking without actually like talking to one another , like their eyes made all the connection and like their body language . I was like I'm so here for it , I'm so here , yes , like when she says penelope is looking for you , and it was like , oh , is she really ? Like when he deadpans like that , like , is she , oh ?

Jordan 43:13

I actually I love the whole dynamic they have , like the especially . I thought like there were definitely some really funny moments during it , like in the beginning , when um scarlet meets with her like professor and she's like there's no grade on here , and he was like basically like this is , like this is I have grad students working on this and you are undergrad , and she's like um and he's and it mentioned something about like a grade and then she's like , well , if it's no difference to you , I'd like an A plus and like I I laughed out loud at that part , like just like the way it was like written . I thought it was so , so funny . And then even just like things between Lucas and her that I thought were funny . And I loved the aspect too of like him being known as like someone that doesn't give emotion , but really he had . He's very expressive , but just no one would see it that like no one saw it except scarlet . So I think , like I think it just goes to show that like they were meant for each other they really were .

Fabienne 44:19

I also think it was a good representation of like their ages , regardless of like what we just said about um , how bdsm is like explored and like with their ages , like it doesn't really make a full

Analyzing the Romance Dynamic

Fabienne 44:30

, complete sense , like being , then being relatively young and then having um , I guess , desire to explore BDSM . It would have made a little bit more sense if they were like depicted a little bit like in the early thirties , um , but I did love um because wait , what did I want to say ? Um , because they are relatively young . I liked how Allie wrote um Scarlet Struggles , you know , because when we go back forth between her confusion when it comes to like Penn and Lucas , her confusion when it comes to like Penn and Lucas , like , oh , but wait , do I not ? Maybe I don't know Lucas that well , because Penn says that he is this and this , but I don't know him as such , so maybe I haven't . I know .

Fabienne 45:22

So I , yes , I totally agree with you that was a really long one , one uh winded way of trying to say that .

Fabienne 45:29

So thank you for picking that up , um but , I , I kind of like , I I really liked her . I yeah , just like , not necessarily confusion , but just insecure . Yes , I think that was . I think that's really well in this book . Um , also , I know this book doesn't really pass like the bechdel test or like the what the bechdel test . It's like when two women are like in one scene , like be it like in a book , a movie , peter , peter , whatever they talk about something else other than their romantic love and then , typically speaking , their hetonormative romantic love . So , for example , if you and I were to talk and we talk about anything other than men or romantic love , then we do pass this test and it's named after a woman who came up with the test , hence the weird name Bechdel or Bechdel or whatever . But obviously Penn and Scarlett , all they talk about is diving and lucas . So it doesn't pass that test . But I love their .

Jordan 46:35

I don't even know what I want to say . This test is it so we have to only talk about men and our romantic interests ?

Fabienne 46:44

no , no , no , no wait , let me just . Let me look it up real quick . Like , do we pass this ?

Jordan 46:49

test .

Fabienne 46:50

Well , not for this book , but just when we talk normally . Yes , we do .

Jordan 46:56

Yeah , no , no , I oh okay , so , oh , so in an overall conversation , yeah .

Fabienne 47:01

Okay , wait . The Bechdel test , also known as the Bechdel-Wallace test , is a measure of representation of women in film and television . The test asks whether a work features at least two women who have a conversation about oh , wait , wait , have a conversation about what a man other than a man ?

Fabienne 47:20

or oh other heteronormative romantic love . Yes , so work of fiction , passing or failing the test is not necessarily the overall representation of women at work . No , that's it . The test asks whether a work features at least two women who have a conversation about something else other than a man .

Jordan 47:45

Oh , and you're saying Penn and Scarlett's only , like they literally only talk about diving and Lucas yes they honestly do Like I thought that like that kind of frustrated me when Scarlett was like she's my best friend and I was like literally all you talk about is Lucas .

Fabienne 48:03

Well , maybe that's only like what happens , though , like in the book . You know , like what ? We don't see what's happening , like in between the lines ,

The Amsterdam Scene & Rushed Ending

Fabienne 48:13

it's just talked about they had coffee , they had dinner . We don't know what they talked about . Have to assume we just have to fill in the gaps ourselves . But when they actually , like when Ali writes their dialogues , it's all . It's only Lucas and you know what's his name , theo that breaks up with Penn in the end . Oh yeah , so , so yeah , there are a bit . There are like a few pointers that I'm like could be done better , could have been better , but I still really , really enjoyed it , yes .

Jordan 48:44

Yes , and I feel like these are like the good books that we're starting with , like Allie Hazelwood as opposed to like the love hypothesis .

Fabienne 48:54

I don't think I could go back to that . I think it's like an Akatar book and then you know , picking up the Cruel Prince type of situation .

Jordan 49:02

I don't think I could do that like I don't think I could do that either , like I think I would need to , just , but I think I could continue on . So like I don't know if I could read the other books of hers , but I think I could read , like mate , maybe this one that comes out in May , if it's not like a sequel to another one of her books . But I feel like her writing is almost essentially getting stronger . So I'm excited , I'm so excited for me , so excited , and then I can't wait to see , like , future books I also saw .

Fabienne 49:40

I saw people like commenting that there's like a cameo on this . Obviously , since I haven't read the writer's stuff , I didn't pick up on that there's no cameo yeah like this , this olive smith . Oh , and then there is the professor is that somebody in another book . Yeah , oh my god and maybe her husband do you think that was like another book ? Yeah , like adam , apparently , because that's isn't't that like the love hypothesis ?

Jordan 50:10

I have no fucking clue .

Fabienne 50:13

Like this Adam guy and all of something , something . Wait , look at the blurb , for I know you don't read blurbs , but just do this once for the podcast .

Jordan 50:23

Look up the blurb , please , for the love hypothesis oh , mate , ooh , ooh . I do not like the cover for mate . Oh , problematic summer romance , that's okay .

Jordan 50:36

sorry , love hypothesis , I'm going , I'm going wait that would actually be so cute if olive was like and she like threw her into this one oh my god , as if sorry , the love hypothesis when a fake relationship between scientists meet meets the irresistible force of attraction , it throws one woman carefully calculated theories on love into chaos . As a third year ph candidate , olive smith doesn't believe in lasting romantic relationships , but her best friend does . That's what got her into this . And then , oh my god , the man . The man is none other than adam carlson , a young hotshot professor , known oh I , and well-known ass . Oh my god . And then that's that's scarlet's professor , who was like you should go like um , this . Um , mrs smith , is she's doing like this project and you should ? Oh my god , so cute . I had no idea .

Fabienne 51:37

No fucking clue so neither did I . Safe to say , this was not my reaction . I was just no as to like I hadn't , like you haven't read the love hypothesis . But okay , never mind , never mind't . Okay , never mind , never mind , never mind . No , okay , never mind .

Jordan 51:53

But I love when authors do that and like throw in cameos , like that .

Fabienne 51:58

And I think it's so funny , it's cute .

Jordan 52:00

Like those are her professors . Fuck , I want to read the Love Hypothesis now .

Fabienne 52:07

See big words D hypothesis . Now dumb it down . Big words scarlet , where's ?

Jordan 52:16

scarlet and lucas . I think she was still like a kindergarten ?

Fabienne 52:17

at that point probably probably no , okay , maybe middle school , maybe middle school

The Epilogue & Final Thoughts

Fabienne 52:21

but I I still don't .

Jordan 52:22

I don't know if I would actually love the love hypothesis , just like I've known people that have read it and they'll be like . They were kind of like jordan , I think you wouldn't like I think it's gonna be really why . I think it's gonna no , no , I think it's like super . I think it is pretty spicy . Um , I think there's just like a lot like it's it .

Fabienne 52:41

It's very heavily like miscommunication , though oh , I don't like miscommunication , just fucking talk to one another same sorry , um , okay , oh , also , which is the fun thing ? Well , not a fun , um , you know how I don't ever really like read epilogues , because the book just ends for me at the final chapter or at least maybe you tried to forget and you were now right badly , but I read the epilogue and I actually loved it .

Fabienne 53:21

I love like the little tidbits , like the little snippets into their lives , as opposed to just one big chunk of one scene me too and I liked that it was from his perspective .

Jordan 53:31

I think that's cool because most of this book well , I mean all of this book is from scarlett's pov , so I love that . The epilogue it was from lucas's point of view , so it's it's these little snippets , but then you get his point of view and it's just like their lead up to like the end A few years later , their PhD student or their doctors , doctors .

Fabienne 53:59

Doctors .

Jordan 54:00

Because they're smart , because they're so smart and use big words .

Fabienne 54:04

Mm-hmm , they don't have to dumb it down .

Jordan 54:07

No .

Fabienne 54:09

No , they don't . Oh no , I loved it . End of story . No , I genuinely really loved it , so I'm going to give Ride a second chance .

Jordan 54:17

Thank you , maybe well , I was going to say you could give the audio a chance , but you're not really into audio .

Fabienne 54:23

But um , I won't see the exclamation marks in that , though Probably will hear it . Everyone is shouting Just everyone's yelling . How are you doing Really good ?

Jordan 54:35

How about you ? What would your star ?

Fabienne 54:41

rating be for this one . I actually did . I gave it a star rating . Oh wait , I never told you , so I'm sort of like off on good reason . I still use it to like look at books and look at blurbs and like look at reviews , but I'm not in love with the interface , so I'm using margins , um what's . I'll take a screenshot . I'll take a screenshot for you and I'll send it after . Um . But I rated it on margins and I gave it a 4.25 because you can't do that on margins , and I gave it a 4.25 because you can't do that on margins .

Jordan 55:12

I like story graph because it's the same you do like 4.5 , so mine was 4.5 . But what I do is I pick . I still use goodreads because I like posting my goodreads reviews on , like my stories , yeah , but what I'll do is I'll give it whatever the main rating is . So like this one , I said it was four on goodreads , but then in my like review I'll put 4.5 stars . So you see the full rating . But I do like 0.5 , 0.25 , 0.75 , um , because it's like , it's not like . I feel like I covet that five star rating . So it needs to be a masterpiece for me to give it five stars . So if there's a few things that I don't love it's it won't be five stars .

Fabienne 56:02

You either have to like fly right through it or you have to be incredibly entertained by it . The dialogues must be really witty , fun , smart .

Jordan 56:11

But yes , and , and it could be just vibes Like if I had like the time of my life reading it , it will be the five stars .

Jordan 56:18

Like I gave a five star to this like fantasy book that I literally finished in like two days just because I was flying through it . Maybe it had some plot holes , maybe it didn't , but like I still flew through it and it was . I was here for the vibes , I thought it was funny . I love the inner monologue of the female main character , so like it will get five stars because of that . But like this one , even though I loved it , flew through it , there was still like those things that we talked about that I was like , oh , this is knocking down a bit for me , yeah , yeah . So I , I , yeah , I'm , I'm here for it here for it , here for it , oh , oh , oh I love this .

Fabienne 57:02

I know wait is this like your phone background ? Oh yeah , it is . I'm like . I'm just trying to show you that you can like use it as a widget .

Jordan 57:11

Oh , I was not noticing that , I was just noticing . I love the apps and your photo background .

Fabienne 57:18

Thank you Coffee , because what else ?

Jordan 57:22

Literally what else . I wish this was my background . I love these . I want to change my thing so badly , like my my , like yeah , but like it just seems like a lot of work .

Fabienne 57:36

No , it doesn't . You can just use your color . You don't have to like change , you don't have like wait . Do you mean like the shortcuts thing ?

Jordan 57:45

You can do that . No , like see how yours are different colors Like mine . You can do that . Yours are different colors like mine . Yeah , but you just yeah .

Fabienne 57:51

but honey , you just press your screen and then everything just like jumbles , like starts moving , and then you press an edit and it's customized . Then you have like a bar with like the color slider . That's it . Wait what ?

Jordan 58:10

Wait what .

Fabienne 58:11

Jordan , I'm dumbing it down for you open up your phone , unlock your phone open .

Jordan 58:16

My phone is open . My phone is open please help me .

Fabienne 58:18

Okay , okay , you just press like on , I don't know , like on your home screen , like until it just starts edit home screen . Yes , edit and then customize .

Jordan 58:30

Okay , edit .

Fabienne 58:35

Customize and now be ready to be blown away . You can even do like large , and then you don't have like the names of the apps . It just looks like you know , like one of those dumb phones , I guess , and then dark . You can do small , you can do whatever .

Jordan 59:01

I am obsessed . Oh , my gosh Right Fantastic . Thank you so much .

Fabienne 59:09

Oh my god , you're welcome're welcome .

Jordan 59:11

Oh , this is so cool . I can't wait . I'm gonna leave it like this for now , but I can't wait to play with around with it more after this episode . But I am literally so happy that we read this book and we got to do it as a buddy read on book club because I think I think so many people enjoyed this book and there's I did see a few people being like absolutely not , no , and gave it like two stars , and I don't fully know where I feel .

Jordan 59:39

Like you know how sometimes you can understand how someone can rate it two stars even though , like you might have loved the book and you did not rate it two stars . I don't fully understand where everybody , like where people are coming from , that they're rating it that low and they didn't like it . I honestly cannot understand . But each reading is subjective and you're allowed to have your opinions on your whatever books you want to read . That's all I'll end with and yeah , on your whatever books you want to read , that's all I'll end with and yeah no good ending , let's , let's leave it at this .

Fabienne 1:00:18

Yes yes , yes , okay , right there yeah , it was worth the F though .

Jordan 1:00:26

I know this is fine what was that sound ?

Fabienne 1:00:32

I'm out , sorry , okay .

Jordan 1:00:38

Wait , wait .

Fabienne 1:00:42

But nothing came out . I'm hitting stop . I'm hitting stop . Okay , bye . Thank you so much for listening .

Jordan 1:00:48

And please don't forget to rate and review wherever you can find us . So catch you next time . Bye .