The Bookish Hour

We Spill the Tea: Bookstagram Drama

• Jor & Fab • Season 2 • Episode 3

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On The Bookish Hour, we dive into some genuinely shocking book community drama. 

Our conversation kicks off with the most disturbing revelation involves an Australian romance author who was recently arrested after publishing a book containing inappropriate content. We discuss how the book was completely scrubbed from all platforms, yet not before receiving some positive reviews, raising serious questions about ethical boundaries in fiction.

The drama continues as we explore the contentious debate around negative reviews on social media. Should readers only post positive content, or is there value in honest criticism? 

Finally, we break down the certain booksta/booktoker controversy where a content creator's negative review of a popular book led to an author unfollowing her, spiraling into a much larger drama. This situation perfectly illustrates how parasocial relationships distort online interactions, with followers feeling entitled to defend creators they've never actually met against perceived slights.

Throughout our discussion, we emphasize that ultimately, the power lies with each user to curate their online experience. Whether you're posting reviews or deciding who to follow, you have the ability to create boundaries that work for you in this ever-evolving digital book landscape.

Cover Art by: Fabienne and Jordan
Contact email: thebookishhourpod@gmail.com
Intro/Outro music: Season Two: Ramaramaray by Aiyo via Epidemic Sound Season One: Sweet Psycho via TikTok’s Offical Sound Studio on Capcut
Follow Us:
Podcast: @thebookishhourpod
Fabienne: @oxonheart
Jordan: @sipsoffiction

Jordan:

welcome to the bookish hour with

Fabienne:

I want to preface have a sore throat so I am swallowing chewing. That that's. It's okay. It just comes with, like this time of year, you know the transition type of weather.

Fabienne:

Oh, so you wouldn't feel like sick?

Fabienne:

No, no, no, no, definitely not. I can feel it coming, I see it like on far down on the horizon, but I'm like sucking on one of those throat pastels. So if you hear that, like clicking or clanking, like you know, in my mouth, like with my teeth, I'm so sorry, just ignore it. Just ignore it. Um, but as I was saying, and actually you were saying too, um, it is now light out. Finally. Um, the Netherlands also went into daylight savings time, and I could not be happier.

Fabienne:

That definitely helped. I honestly I love daylight savings saving, especially when we go forward. I just I love the days feeling longer even though it might be shorter, like in the morning, so it like might the sun might not come out until later, but I just love having it light out for longer, like at night, in the afternoon, so it makes me so happy.

Jordan:

I do have to get used to the fact that it is a little bit darker again now in the mornings because technically it's like an hour, you know, like in my head still, instead of like saying it's now like um 20 past eight for me. Then of course it's still like technically 20 past seven in my head, but that works in the morning as well. So instead of like it being 6 15 and my alarm goes off, it's actually 5 15. So I do struggle with that. But you know, in the afternoon it's all worth it. It's all worth it because it's a light out when I go back home from work and I'm so happy it's all worth it in the end honestly, I'm no better than just like a houseplant.

Jordan:

All I need is a bit of sunlight and I'm good to go yep, give me some water, some sunlight and feed me sometimes, and you know I'm a happy girl, golden, golden, golden. Okay, fab, tell me something good that happened to you this week I actually have quite a few things that I could tell you about right now, but I'm going to save it for maybe multiple episodes, just to know. We'll see. I like it, I like it. But the first good thing is that I booked a trip to London with my mom.

Fabienne:

Oh my gosh, that's so exciting.

Jordan:

I know, and it's partially like for it's like in part for her birthday, but also in part for like Mother's Day and also in part for our tradition that we, we kind of like came up with our own tradition that every single year we want to do something with each other. And in the beginning it was like just have, you know, like a mom and a daughter, lunch. And then it was like, okay, we're going to like, I guess, expand. It was like, okay, we're gonna like, um, I guess, expand this, and then we're gonna have like dinner and drinks. And then we were like you know what? What we should just do this abroad.

Jordan:

So then we started going to london, um, barcelona, um, also oxford, like last year. But then this year we want to go to london, and I already to London with her actually, but it was such a fun time and I don't know my mom, like in terms of like aesthetic, she is London, she's like that classy English type of woman and I don't know, I just wanted to do that with her. So we booked a flight and just for the sake of the podcast because I have no idea when this is going to be, you know, uploaded or it's going to go live, but we're going to go fairly soon. We are going to go in three weeks time from now oh shit, actually wait.

Fabienne:

So is that the last wait? Is that the last weekend of april or the second to last weekend? It's the second to last actually.

Jordan:

It's the second to last, actually, so it's actually Easter Sunday, oh you guys are going over. Easter, yeah, like Good Friday, I like that, yeah. So April 18th until or till, I should say, monday, the 22nd, so four whole days. That's so exciting. I'm so excited for you. Do you guys know?

Fabienne:

where you're going to stay in London.

Jordan:

Oh, yes, yes, yes, I booked the hotel and it is in South Kensington. Okay, I'm not trying to tell as much as as I like on here, because you never know who you're running to and people might you know, just crazy people out there you know, yeah, you don't, but you could just leave it at south kensington not that I even really know where that is, but also london it's so fucking big jordan it doesn't really matter like it's so huge, um.

Jordan:

But I kind of went like down um how do you say that? Like I I kind of like spiraled, in a sense of I really went down a rabbit hole. That's what I want to say. I went down a rabbit hole because I was I google maps the entire part, like the entire, um, the entire area of london. So I have like all of the pubs, I have all of the bookshops, all of the cafes and little coffee shops, I have all the parks. I look like one of those people who are actually like who actually comes prepared to a city trip, when normally I am one of those people who follow.

Fabienne:

But now but it's good because I feel like so you leave friday and you come back monday, so you only have two full days there. So you have to jam those two full days.

Jordan:

That's. That was my reasoning too, and my mom was like are you sure that we have enough time there to do all this? I'm like I don't care, I'd rather have you know too many things on the list than too little because of the entire like you know, the full two days, like you said that you have there. But then, to be fair, we do fly in friday very, very early, like we have a plane, that's good at eight o'clock in the morning or so.

Jordan:

Yeah, that is good, but it's also a little bit tiring because you wake up really early too to go to the airport and then you have, like you know, the commute from the airport, from here in amsterdam then in london to, you know, like the hotel, etc, etc.

Fabienne:

But yeah, fair, but but it like works out because then you can still use like the whole afternoon of Friday to like do things. But then do you leave early Monday, or is it at least later on Monday later in the afternoon.

Jordan:

Yeah, later in the afternoon.

Fabienne:

It's kind of technically what we always try to like aim for anyways yeah, no, I feel like that's good, because then, like you have most of monday too, like you don't have to leave until like the afternoon.

Jordan:

So like that's kind of cool the one thing that I do always like dread and especially like when you go out on a sit or like go for a city trip is when you have like one of those trolleys, like those little you know backpacks on like wheelers or wheels, and then you hobble down like the city you always like hear the little ricketyk off the wheels, on like the cobblestones and you're like another tourist.

Jordan:

So I actually have come prepared for this. I'm only gonna take one of those big rucksacks. It's not gonna look fancy on my outfit, I know that, but at least we're carrying stuff and you don't have to like, you know like drag your suitcase behind you, especially on Monday. You know, like the, I'm sure that the hotel will keep it for you until the next, like until the next hour. Say, we have to check out at 11 and then you know they might keep your bags until like, say, two o'clock and then, because you know they have to, I guess, release the stuff because they have new people come in. So I don't want to walk around the city with my suitcase on wheels for another six hours. A backpack it is.

Fabienne:

To be completely honest, I figured the hotel would keep it for a lot longer than that. I feel like the hotel would keep it until you leave, until you go and get it back. That would be weird.

Jordan:

I mean, I also don't maybe know, I don't know how it works, I don't know.

Fabienne:

Yeah but I know, like here, they would keep it until you come back for it being like I need it, like I'll be like you'll ask you like what time, like you would be like back, because then that engages on like where they would put it, so they should keep your stuff.

Jordan:

But I also understand not wanting to have to carry like a suitcase on wheels, like still three I also don't, you know, I don't want to risk like being um pickpocketed, as the british say um. So you know, I, I want to minimize, minimize, minimize, minimize that risk. I mean, yeah, minimize, stuff word.

Fabienne:

Yeah, that one, that one.

Jordan:

So, yeah, that's my good week. So you know, I have something really fun to look forward to. But I see that you are really hyped to talk about Georgia Week.

Fabienne:

So much it's funny well, no, okay, so I wasn't going to say this, but I feel like now that you said a trip, I at the end of April, that's why I asked you the weekend, so it's literally the next weekend me and Nick are going to Maine, we're gonna go like hike acadia, just super exciting. But like, so, like technically this trip would have been for his birthday in january, but then, with like luna's passing, we decided we were actually trying to cancel it all together because he, just he was like I don't want to do it anymore. So I, we booked an airbnb, so I was like contacting the airbnb, but it was like super last minute. So I was like contacting the Airbnb, but it was like super last minute. So I was like I kind of, I totally understand if you can't cancel or if we can't cancel.

Fabienne:

And she was like, well, we can't cancel it but we can move it. And I was like, okay, like what? And she, um, you can move it up to like three months. So so, honestly, I was like, can we have April? And then we took the last weekend in April and she was like, yep, that's fine. And she like switched out the dates for, like us, no extra charge. Because as it gets like closer to like the season, it's like way more expensive, but the fact that she granted the season doesn't start until like may, really. So we're still within like that off-season time, but the prices for the airbnb were more for this last weekend in april, uh, versus like mid january. But I'm actually so excited because it's like cold but it's not going to be like freezing, like it wasn't been in January.

Jordan:

Just like a nice chilly in the like a nice chill in the air, but there's still sun.

Fabienne:

Exactly so. I'm like so excited for this like weekend and we're just going to treat it as his like birthday weekend. It's just now in April.

Jordan:

I mean, time is only. You know it's a man made construct honey. If you just pretend that's January but then with you know warmer temperatures, it's his birthday weekend, but that is so fun. I know I'm like so excited because I've never Sorry, no, no, no, you go, no, no, no, you go, you go.

Fabienne:

Oh, because I was going to say I've never hiked it before and I'm like really excited to like hike it. Granted, we're staying in surrey, I think is the name. It's like a, it's a tiny cabin, it's one of those like tiny homes and oh, that's cool, but the but the thing is is like because, like bar harbor bar harbor, however you pronounce it is like what is like right outside acadia and that is like the area that I guess like you're supposed to stay in, but that was like really expensive I'm supposed to yeah.

Fabienne:

so I was like I I'm like, fuck it, we're staying in surrey. Granted, it will be like a drive, but you leave early in the morning, you just drive there, then you hike, you're it's not like we're gonna like hike into, hike into the I don't know like you hike a hike and then you drive back Like whether it's a 20-minute drive or a 40-minute drive, isn't that?

Jordan:

what you always do, like you go to a place to hike and then you drive back home, or like to another place. You don't walk to a place to hike and then walk back.

Fabienne:

Yeah. So I'm like who cares if it's going to be like an hour drive, Like I feel like we're just and since it's getting closer to the end season, like more spots will be open, which is nice, because because in January, like there was only select spots you could like hike.

Jordan:

And I was just praying for no snow, which there won't be any snow in April, hopefully, I mean. I mean, don't they say that April has like its own will? Do you guys have like a saying like that, like April does what it wants, or something?

Fabienne:

Well, not necessarily. I mean it rains a lot. I wouldn't say there's snow, because there's always the April showers bring May flowers, that's one.

Jordan:

Yeah.

Fabienne:

So I think there could be a lot of rain, which is fine. We like when we went to wyoming to hike, like those it was like raining the whole time I know, I remember you say that oh, like it was one very

Fabienne:

bright moment though, amongst the show, amongst our showers but it's so funny because everybody was like bring shorts, it's going to be really hot, you're going to want to wake up early and go go hiking, because once it hits noon you're going to be sweating. Because we went in august but like literally hit the only patch of just like rain every single day. We were there which, honestly, like it was it like worked, it was fine.

Jordan:

But I was like it was not hot, it was cold. Guys, you told me to bring shorts. Where's the fucking sun?

Fabienne:

There's literally no sun. It's not here, he ain't here, he ain't here, no, okay, so that's really fun.

Fabienne:

Oh sorry, yes, yeah, no, no, no, let's, let's just dive in, let's give the people what they want hopefully, I assume I'm literally so excited because I love just talking, gossip and tea with you, so I'm so excited for all this bookish drama, whether it's bookstagram or like book drama in general. I'm literally so freaking excited for it and I'm so curious if you've like heard it and like what you've heard, so I actually wrote down some things of that.

Jordan:

You know what I? I just like sort of like thought that this episode was going to be about. So I wrote down uh wait, I'm going to give you three, I guess, guesses of mine, and then you either have to say yes or no, or whatever so.

Fabienne:

I wrote down I have two things, two things I want to talk about. So let's see if either Okay.

Jordan:

Yeah, so I have one that's actually pretty gross and for me I saw this first on threads it's this one Aussie author who wrote a romance about.

Fabienne:

That's my number one thing I want to talk about, okay.

Jordan:

Okay, so we'll.

Fabienne:

Yep, okay, sorry, no, continue, continue, we'll circle back, we'll circle back.

Jordan:

This is going to be one of those episodes where we're just like talking back and forth it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. So the second one that I have is about this new rise of, like christian romances and how dirty romances are, like you know, slammed upon in that sense like there's only clean romances that people should read oh no, I have not heard this, so we'll definitely have to include this in the mix.

Jordan:

Okay, so I'm gonna do that as a number two, I guess clean romances as opposed to dark, dirty romance Well, not dark necessarily, but just dirty romances, because that's how they phrased it. And then the third one. I lied, I only had two.

Fabienne:

Okay. Well then I also have a third one, but we'll do that one last because I have questions leading up to it before I dive into it from you. But I think we should talk about the disgusting one first, because I think I so. Do you know anything about it?

Jordan:

The only thing that I do know well, okay, very vaguely, and the things that I do know is are like very shallow, like superficially, like superficial stuff. So, like I said before, I saw this first on threads and I actually I have no clue who I saw posting about it. I think it was no. I have no clue who I saw posting about it. I think it was no. I have no no idea who she is, because I see like people's faces and like their, their Instagram handles and like their tags. I'm like, oh yeah, I know her, but then I want to talk about that. I'm like poof gone.

Jordan:

I have no clue who these people are but anyways, I saw this on Threads first and then I saw someone actually like hyping up this book and what first? First things. No, listen, first things first. So this was in the morning when I saw this. Yeah, this was me getting up at 6 15 before daylight savings time, so it was, you know, bright and early, but then, just you know, the birds were singing and chirping. But it all went really fast downhill from there because I saw people are glorifying pedophile stories. I'm like, wait, what 6, 15, what 615, guys, what's happening? What's happening? What's going on? What is happening?

Jordan:

Oliver suddenly just like stopped singing their song.

Fabienne:

Okay, you hold on, let me do like a rundown and then we'll go into, like what you saw. Okay, so anybody that knows the author, tori Woods, that is who we're talking about and it's her story, daddy's Little Toy. And it is. I don't know if you've seen this cover. It is pink with baby blocks spelling out Daddy's Little Toy Baby blocks. Literally that alone, I think, screams disgusting in my mind. Literally that alone, I think, screams disgusting in my mind.

Fabienne:

Tori Woods is an Aussie author but it's a pen name for Lauren Ashley, I believe, which is a pen name, for her legal name is like Lauren something, something. But she basically wrote this story and I think what she was trying to do was in the kink community there's like a daddy in a little situation, so basically it's, but it's there's usually no sex with it, like in daddy little kinks. It's supposed to be similar to a dom sub kind of relationship where there's no like actual pain. That I believe. I haven't looked too deep into this, but I know somewhat of it, but it's basically like a daddy taking care of a little, but everybody's of legal age consent, like everybody's supposed to be above age yes, yes, yes.

Fabienne:

And it's, but it tends to be like I don't even think there needs to be like an age gap or anything. I think it just needs to be. There's like someone that wants to take care of somebody else in any aspect of like they get. Like you think of like some, like someone taking care of someone when they're sick, like think of like yeah, I saw people saying like she did not do any research into this kink community of like daddy little, and I think there's like a there's a better terminology for that.

Fabienne:

so I'm so sorry because I'm probably fucking that up royally and oh, you can't be fucking up any worse than this Tory person, so you're doing really good, but like basically now I've never put my eyes on this text file, I've never seen it with my eyes, but from what I read is basically the story starts off with this girl at the age of three years old and this older man is fantasizing about being with this three-year-old Three-year-old, not like she's three, and he's like a guardian. And then maybe she grows up and then she's like 20 and now he like sees her as somebody he like wants to be with, which in that way I still think is gross. But like I'm trying, I'm not yucking anyone's yum if that's like what they want, but like the fact that she's very yum. But the fact that he's three years old and he's like fantasizing about her, then apparently disgusting. But then apparently people like getting the arcs, like people reached out to her and were like hey, this is like actually kind of gross, like maybe you shouldn't publish this and she like wrote them off. She was like no, you just don't get the story. Like no, like, no, like I'm going to still publish it. That's why it was up, that's why it got published.

Fabienne:

But I don't know if you notice, there were people. There were people that arced this book, that gave it three, four and five stars and were like this was a great story, I love this story. Like, oh my God, this was amazing. And then there were the people, there were some people that gave it three stars, that were like, um, it was a little disturbing at some parts, but like, I guess, overall I enjoyed this a little. But I and then I don't know if you saw people's comments, like on those like reviews, that were like anybody that gave this above one star should go to jail, which leads to my next point. The author was arrested for the contents of this book.

Fabienne:

Yes, she was arrested in her home, like for like pedophilia content in her home. But if you think about it, like people that have, like children, pornography on their computers go to jail. So like this is the same fucking thing. Like I never I'm not, that is so true. But I I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to say cause I don't think us reading romance is the same thing as like watching porn. Like I do think there's more to it, but but in this aspect, like it's the same thing in my mind, it's the same thing In my mind, it's the same thing. And I'm like, thank fucking God the author was arrested. Like how can you think it's okay to write something like that? But I don't know if you've noticed, but like now the book has taken, it's like been removed everywhere.

Jordan:

Like you can't find it on Amazon. I don't see it anymore. You don't find it on Goodreads. Like there was this entire discourse thing on like threads, like I said before, but I haven't like seen it pop up and in like I don't know like two weeks time, because we talked about this like two weeks ago, where you said, hey, we can discuss like book drama on the, on the podcast. I'm like, oh sure, I have no clue what that was about.

Fabienne:

And then, literally like two days after, I saw that thing on my threads account and I'm like, oh, I know I'm so glad we didn't talk about it because we would have talked about it, but literally, literally, it was that that day that I saw something, that she got arrested, so I wouldn't even have been able to mention that she got arrested and at that time. So I'm glad we waited, because I'm like, but still like, thank fucking God, but I don't know if you know. So like Amazon's like really weird and when you publish a paperback it's so hard to get it taken down. Like Amazon doesn't take anything down. So like you'll see a lot of out-of-print stuff from authors because, like they have removed the book but Amazon still has yet to take it down.

Fabienne:

Literally no trace of this. I think they're even trying. Like no trace of this book. Like it's hard to search the author. I think you can still find the author and her two other books, like Tori Woods. Anyways, I don't know about Lauren Ashley, like I don't know if like, because I think but honestly, Jory, that name actually does sound familiar.

Jordan:

I thought for a hot second. Like Lauren, Ashley like who wrote the F1 series and I was like lauren. Sure, like who wrote the f1 series and I was. I was really scared for a second. But she is not like she was. She wasn't an australian. Are you gonna do live?

Fabienne:

research. Right now I am. I'm looking up lauren ashley, but I feel like that's such a common name. Oh nope, she's here. She's here, but show me everything show me but it's like okay, so there's everything I am part one broken, and then everything I am part two crossroads, then pieces of us. But like, this is the author and I don't know how to make her bigger on, I can't like lauren ashley. Well, it's a little bit bigger.

Jordan:

This is like her honestly so I don't know I'm generally not even saying this just because of this episode, but she really has like that creepy look about her. Look at those eyes.

Fabienne:

They're like you know, void you should have got the good thing you got arrested. But like I, just like, I can't believe that. It's like I have literal goosebumps, like the fact that you would write something like that, and then like I like, I'm sorry, but like what the fuck is wrong in your head to think it's okay to write something like that?

Jordan:

well, that's what I said. I think they generally did not think that anything was wrong.

Fabienne:

I mean, oh wait, I I have to process this though so I don't know, like what you saw, I I feel like I needed to give the backstory now, like no, no, we can go into.

Jordan:

I feel like you are like so much more like present still, like in the bookstagram community. Um I, I have to say I am more active but I don't really mingle in as much drama, not to say that you do only like solely mingle within this drama dramatic. You know situations but you do see more on it than I do, also because maybe I also became maybe off the location maybe, but I also feel like I want the drama.

Fabienne:

So like I see, like I'm like you want those, I love it like I saw.

Fabienne:

I like saw someone posting about it, but like in a very vague aspect and I didn't know like what they were talking about. So then I was like, oh, who is this tori woods? And so I saw it a while ago, like a couple weeks ago, but like nothing really came of it yet, because they were just the person was like I think she should have done more research in the kink community, like she didn't really get into like the specifics. And then, because you watch that one reel, like more popped up about it, and then it was like, oh, then I was like, oh, like this guy fantasized being with a, like a younger person, and then I was like, oh, he fantas, he fantasized with being with a three-year-old, and I was like what? And then I was like, oh, she got arrested. And I was like, oh, thank God. And then it was just like all these things that I kept like seeing, but probably because I was watching them. So then it was like coming to me the algorithm.

Fabienne:

I wasn't like I wasn't like searching this stuff. Searching this stuff, well, I did search the author. So I saw the book before amazon took it down and like thank goodness, overall it had like two stars or like one and a half, but still like the fact that I saw some reviews like I saw someone give it five five stars.

Jordan:

Okay question then for you do you think that that was for a person herself, but then just like in disguise, or was it someone who was bribed? That is a good question. I'm gonna give you like a dollar, like amazon gift card, if you give this book 50, like 50 five stars. You know I can see people being like you know, spineless, like that and just taking that, taking that offer disgusting, yeah, honestly, is a kink. Is it like wait, I'm actually curious now because is it the same? Then it's like a dom substitute situation, like with the daddy, I think it's like.

Fabienne:

I think it's like similar, but I think it's more so like you're. You want to like take care of. So there's no like, yeah, isn't that?

Jordan:

also doesn't that like also encapsulates, like the entire dynamic between a dominant sub?

Fabienne:

I mean, yes, but I think the dominant sub too can be more about like pain. This is like I don't think pain. I haven't done so much research, but dom sub could be like more like ordering you around, like, and I think that can be like more, yeah, where I think like a daddy little part of the package I think that is in the aspect of like aftercare, I feel like, but like daddy little is more like. I think of like when you're sick and you take care of somebody, like that.

Jordan:

I think okay, but I have, I haven't done that much research, so maybe it really is similar to dom sub but and there's something else, but I so I don't know and if we look at it fictionally, like when we read um deep end, for example, where lucas was a dom and then, um, what's her name bandy, what's his sub, he kind of like subconsciously or no, yeah, subconsciously I took care of her as well. I feel like that made it's like the same type of dynamic. Then yeah, anyways, I'm not really I don't know. I I don't really know much about kinks, I have to admit, and for some reason, yeah, that way, I mean, I know about them you know how you phrase so I don't

Fabienne:

want to yuck on anybody's yeah, like I don't, I don't know enough to like fully give any actual like, like information on it like definitely, just look it up it's actually hilarious that she got arrested.

Jordan:

Sorry, I can't thank god the fact that I just actually, like some people, really think that they can get away with that shit like it's on your computer. You know, people watch that shit and it's like what?

Fabienne:

yeah, yeah, let's go to the next one. Okay, what was this?

Jordan:

this is not as deep as this, like as the tori story.

Jordan:

The tori story not toy story, ironically, because you know the tori story, um, but I I don't know like there has been this entire thing on book instagram for the past year, two years almost, where people say you don't have to shit on other readers for what they prefer in their books. Now, this is obviously like, you know, beside the kink and beside, you know, whatever you know, yeah, the poor discussion, so to say, um, but it's more like, if you like dark romance romance, if you like sports romance, you like sports romance. If you like smut in your books without the plot, then you like smut without the plot. That's completely fine, you do you? You know, um, people should like stay in their lanes, but then some people feel the need or they feel obligated to, you know, change lanes and be like hey, you, this now in extension of source, um, I have seen discourse on threads where people have started doing this again, and I haven't seen this on bookstagram, ironically, but I have seen this then on book threads is what it is now. I mean, you know about like um, what was um book twitter was a thing back in a day. It's now x, but it's twitter. When it still was twitter, we had like book twitter and we have book threads now, but people start coming at readers um, for their preferences in books and, um, obviously there's books where there's no smart or like closed door romances. I think people, some people like call it or it's like it's the officially, like the official term, but it's really marketed. And Bryn Weaver actually came into play here and she is pretty vicious on book threads. It's hilarious. She really comes like also like Ivy Ophelia, you know, from the Poisoner. They are like very vocal, like you know very active and like proactive and it's fantastic to see.

Jordan:

So if someone says something about like people who read SMUD, they're like you know, below, they're like you know, like how do you say that? Like scum of the earth, not necessarily those words, but basically they don't, they don't know any better. They're because they they read smut. Um, I'm really phrasing this poorly, by the way, anyways. But then I feel velia comes in and brin weaver, they, I feel like they're just like you know they. They come to like people's rescues on book threads and they're like, yeah, but what about if you just don't come into people's dms and say that they should not read this? What about what? What then? But people have basically, like you know, they're just shitting on people's um preferences. To read smut is what it comes down to.

Jordan:

It's very poorly articulated um that's like so mean yeah I know, but it's really funny to see like the comebacks from like brie, from like brin and um also actually kv rose sometimes pops in, which is interesting to see I don't have threads, but now I'm wondering if I should get it.

Fabienne:

But I've heard so many people talk about how toxic threads is and how negative this space is yeah, but I think it's like things like this that people like talk about, like all it is is like drama and things like that, and then jor honestly, then everything is toxic nowadays also, I feel like social media.

Jordan:

There are obviously like unwritten rules and like guidelines that people should like stick to, that people should like adhere to, to like keep the space positive. But people are animals on social platforms Like you can hide so easily behind a screen, like your text, like your textual um um sort yeah, like yeah. So you can hide so easily and I feel that gives like some people like the extra motivation or courage. However, you want to put it um to excessively, like shit and other people um unnecessarily, and you know, yes, it's toxic, but also, yes, you can choose in a very healthy manner, not to. You know, choose not to engage in that type of discourse. You can choose to look the other way. You can choose to. You know, remove those people from your spheres. You can. They can choose to walk the other way.

Jordan:

But everything on social media platforms, you know, whatever you choose youtube, um x threads um tiktok, instagram people are gonna be always mean um, but so are people like in daily life. And then, if you, if you do encounter like people in like the actual life, day-to-day life, you also literally walk away, like physically. So people have like the power in their own hands in that sense, like you can literally choose not to you know remark on other people's like mean comments. You can just like. You know what. I'm just not today I'm going to block this person.

Jordan:

I am going to you know and also like with Instagram too, you can look up, like the thing you can choose, basically your for you page. The more you look for certain things, the more you look for like positivity, the more it comes back, literally on threads what goes around comes around. So if you look only for you know, I don't know romance books, or if you but then obviously like the positive side of it all, um, I don't know, uh, microphones, for example, first thing that I see here, then you only like the only thing that you see on threads or book or like instagram is like microphones. So it you know, you can really really choose yourself what you um what to see, what to read and um what you want to engage in or like with yeah, that's a very good point.

Fabienne:

So those were my two cents.

Jordan:

The power is in your hands that was a really good one, yeah yeah, but it is, it is, it is, but it is, it is.

Fabienne:

Um, okay, can I go into my last piece of drama then?

Jordan:

only last piece.

Fabienne:

Yes, of course yeah, this is the last one. Okay, I first. I have to start it with a question. Oh, like for you specifically, what are your thoughts on posting a negative review like on social media? What are your thoughts about that?

Jordan:

no right or wrong answer, please okay, can I, before I actually give you an answer, can I? Can I ask you something else as well? Oh, okay, just just just so that I have my frame, like my framework of how, of how I can't answer your question. Yes, so do. Do we? Do we see and like a negative review as like I hated this book because of x, y and z? Or do we see a negative review as an honest review in which is just like phrase more politically correct, as I did not enjoy this book as much as I thought I would, or I thought I would. I had high hopes for this book, but it didn't come to fruition because of xyz, would you still say the last one is a negative one.

Fabienne:

I.

Jordan:

I think you could say like your negative review could be whatever you wanted your negative review to be of a book okay, then, technically I am all here for negative reviews on social media are yeah, however, important footnote, if it's uh, okay, just for the sake of example, yeah say I say I read enigma, you know, by runix, like in april, whenever we do get like our hands on it and I'm going to be like, oh, I fucking hated this book. For just example, like hypothetically.

Fabienne:

Hypothetically.

Jordan:

Runix follows me, I follow her. I would not put that on social media. I would maybe only, like you know, post about it just to show my followers that I have read the book and just like for content, because you know Runix, great name, as in like large, big name, you know yes. So no, I would just be mean.

Fabienne:

Yeah, because she thought I am here.

Jordan:

Yes, but I am here. But I am here for the negative reviews in the broad sense. I never tag an author, for example.

Fabienne:

Yes, no Like tagging authors, no, no. Hashtags, no, no. And I can see where you're coming from, with the authors following you, but so have you seen anything about this Larry Reads drama. Larry Reads no, I can't say that I have so she's like pretty big on TikTok and she has a YouTube page and she and her name is Larry. Yeah, it's like Larissa, but her nickname's Larry, oh not bad um.

Fabienne:

But she got the arc for this new Renaena kent book and apparently she hated it. So she posted a negative review on tiktok. But it was her talking about it and she's like this book gave nothing. Like I expected it to be something different and it gave nothing. I dnf'd it, all these things and basically she posted it.

Fabienne:

Then she made a like funny tiktok and apparently she did say she said that it was a joke. She said it was a joke, but I don't, like I'm I think it's a joke. I've been following larry for a while but I understand how people could blow it out of proportion. But she did a tiktok because I guess they were mutuals on TikTok. So Rina followed her and she followed Rina. But reena kent unfollowed her after this negative review. So she did a funny video of like being like with a gracie abrams song being I miss um, I'm sorry, I miss you, or I miss you, I'm sorry, or whatever, and talking about how, like they go from mutuals to like following, so like they used to be friends and then like now it just shows as Larry following her. So she like unfollows her and so she posts this like review and she meant it as a joke Like this, like funny video, because you post one negative review when before she was like raving about her like one series God of Malice, god of Fury, like those books, like she loves that series with like her whole heart. So I think that's like why um reena kent started following her, so she posts this thing. It goes crazy.

Fabienne:

There's the people that side with larry being like why the fuck would reena kent unfollow her, like how dare you? Like she's given you so much publicity with your series. And then there's the other series, the other book, people that are like you shouldn't have posted it in negative review, like that's not what social media is for. That's like what review pages are for. Is this like negative review? And it literally blows out of proportion to the point that Larry had to do another video being like hey guys, like I didn't take offense to Rena Kent unfollowing me. I think you can unfollow, follow and unfollow people at any time. There's no right or wrong reason. I just did this. I thought it was a joke, but clearly it was not taken as a joke and I'm sorry for that. But please do not go after Rena Kent, but also don't come out after me either. Like so people were like blowing up her spot.

Fabienne:

But now I've seen a lot of people mention, like, how social media is like not meant for reviews and not meant for negative reviews, which I personally don't agree with that, because there's people I follow and I follow for reviews Like. So if you're going to review a book, like if I see you're reading it, I want your review of it, and I feel like that's where, like, people don't understand. Like the like Larry's page is about reviewing books. Like she has a booktube where she literally will tell you if she liked a book or not.

Fabienne:

Like she can't, what is she going to a book or not? Like she can't, what is she gonna? It's not like a, she's not just like a recommendation, like person. So she's not gonna just tell you all the books she like loves. She's gonna tell you the ones that she absolutely hated too, whether they're like ones she like. Like you know what I mean. But I think, like I do see where you're saying too, about like if the author follows you you. So Rena Kent did follow her, but I feel like she is also a reviewer, so you would think that these authors know that like they start, like people start, as I feel like I mean you kind of know that like a lot of these like bigger in, like book people can I jump in before I lose this train of thought?

Jordan:

yes, so I also feel, like now with um, how the bookstagram community works like authors follow readers, readers follow authors. Obviously, um, but then also I have this feeling where a very large majority of readers who are mutuals with authors, they have this parasocial type of relationship with them, so they feel one way about and toward these authors, but the authors are just like, okay, well, I like their prose, they support my writings, they support my work. I'm just going to follow them back and maybe in those people's minds they see that, oh, we're friends. Now we are friends, we have a relationship, we are friends. So I cannot tell, I cannot say bad stuff about my friends.

Jordan:

So some people who then post negative reviews say something like slightly negative about these authors, about their works. Then the people who do have this, you know, who have this grand like grandeur type of thinking where they're like oh, we're friends. They come to these other people and be like, hey, you can't say that, because bookstagram is not meant for this. You can't be mean towards X, y and Z because of X, y and Z. Do you slightly see where I'm coming? Yeah, I do, I do, and honestly also in their defense. It comes from a point, it comes from, like you know, like a point of, I guess. I guess admiration comes from, like you know, like, like, like from love, in a way that they want to protect the author, which I can only admire to a certain point, but also sometimes I'm like this is going a little bit too far. Everyone can fucking fucking post on their social media whatever they want to because it's an expression of their creativity whether it's you know, it's people's opinions.

Jordan:

If you can't pose reviews, because if that becomes too serious, if it's not only just positive and lovely, then also, why do news channels have social media? Why do, uh? Why do politicians have social media? Why, you know, why does the white house have the social media? Yeah, no, that's true. If you don't want, if you don't want sorry, I have to. I have to finish this. If you don't want, if you don't want reality on your social media, then don't be on fucking social media.

Jordan:

Go out on the streets put away your phone, touch some fucking grass and play in the water.

Fabienne:

You know, go play with your little brothers and sisters and with a dog throw a ball sometime. I totally agree. I think you should be able to post whatever you want, which, in the same vein, is like if an author wants to unfollow you, then like that is within their right. Just like, exactly, I follow and unfollow people all the fucking time and I'm like, but it's because their content doesn't align with me. Like remember how, like? I mean, we started our bookstagram pages and we were all about dark romance, like all about it, and then, like at the end of 2023, we were like, well, can't do this anymore.

Fabienne:

We like, honestly, we both like made a full like 180 that I unfollowed so many dark romance like bookstagrammers because I was like, if I wasn't friends with you or if you didn't post about other things, like I didn't want to see your content anymore.

Fabienne:

So I did like a mass like unfollow thing, exactly, and I'm like and and maybe people took offense to that, because I know some people I think that did still follow and content on my comment on my stuff stop. So I think they like noticed that. But I was also like I'm not gonna apologize for like not being, like not wanting to read dark romance and then not wanting to see it so, but like if we were still friends and you were still like a dark romance reader, like that's in itself, that was like completely different. But I feel like, which is also to say like if you're a dark romance reader, it's like, please still post about that. But just because I don't want to see it doesn't mean that I like don't have it within my right to unfollow. So I feel like's, I still like, I like the negative reviews, like, and I want people to feel that they can post these negative reviews because I don't.

Jordan:

I feel like, if I think it's like a balance is to scale too. Like, yeah, if a book is really great, then of course there's more like positive and loving reviews.

Fabienne:

But there's also going to be people out there who didn't love it, and they have just as much as right to post about their perspective on a story as the people who loved it Exactly Like everybody has their right to like, post about a book and like, and maybe it starts this like bigger conversation and because I'm thinking too like I thought there's other people I follow, like, thinking of Beach Read and Bubbly. Like she posts literally every single book she reads. She never like tags the author, but she's always posting about the book she has read and it's her review, because that's like literally what her page is. Everybody reads the book she's reading, so then they can join her story where she talks about it afterwards. So it's like you like, but you also know what you're getting.

Fabienne:

So, like maybe you're somebody that doesn't want like people following people that do reviews, then don't follow them. You have the right to unfollow, but I do not think you have the right to tell people that negative reviews don't belong on social media. I don't think you have the right to say that negative reviews only belong on review platforms, which I agree Like. I think reviews belong on those review platforms, but I've had authors step into the review space of mine and I've given their book two stars and then they make a joke out of it and make me feel uncomfortable. So it works both fucking ways. So it's like, like I, like you say that negative reviews only belong on review spaces, but like I've had, I've done it and I've I've given those negative reviews and then the authors come into that space. So, and I will talk about that until I'm blue in the motherfucking face, because I feel like there is no like.

Jordan:

There is no like safe space I mean, I'm not religious, but amen, sister like.

Fabienne:

I think you should be able to post whatever the fuck you want, because I like, in the sense of like the larry thing and I do feel bad for her like and and maybe she could have, I don't know. I think she did what she wanted and I think that is all you can ask for and she took no offense to the author unfollowing her and I think that's the best course of action. I think if she was truly upset that the author unfollowed her, that would be something different. But I follow Larry for her reviews I like. So it's like if she were to just stop posting reviews, I would unfollow her, because that's actually had she had.

Jordan:

She posted like a negative review before this.

Fabienne:

Reena can't fiasco oh, all the time she posts negative reviews all the time then why is this now any different than, I think, the ones before?

Fabienne:

because it's reena no, I think what it is is because then she made that video of reena unfollowing her. Even though she meant it as a joke, people took it too far. So I don't think it was the negative review per se, because there were the people, some people that we follow I saw in the comments being like reena, reena k. How could you unfollow her? She's given you so much publicity on your other series. I think you're doing a disservice to Larry for unfollowing her and I'm like girl my one name in Jersey is Jordan.

Jordan:

Who are these people? I'll tell you after.

Fabienne:

I'm not blowing up her spot on here, but I will show you afterwards because I was like jeez it. I was like I figured you would be the one person that wouldn't have said this stuff but like so. But then apparently, like these, some of larry's followers were going after reena kent for unfollowing her. So this like video that was. But then there was the people on the other side that that believe that review negative reviews shouldn't be on social media. They're like you have, you can't be upset for the author unfollowing you because they're protecting their peace, which I agree, they are protecting their peace. But Larry wasn't upset. Like she made this. It was like a joke of the video but people took it too far, like both sides took it like as not a joke and she had to come back in another video and be like guys, that was a joke, please do not go after Rena Kent and also please don't come after me. Like this was a joke and I'm sorry it did not land as a joke. So I think that's like where this all stems from. But like people are like people are like blowing it up. I think it's finally like dying down. But like people blew it up this past week that like I went into my local bookstore over the weekend and the girl behind the counter was talking about it and I was like, are you talking about Larry Reed's?

Fabienne:

And she's like, yes and I, but like we agreed, she was like I was like we were going back and forth about it and um, in the sense of like talking about like what we knew and stuff, and she's like, yeah, clearly it was a joke. And I was like, exactly, and I was like these people coming into her comments like saying like how could Rena Kent unfollow her? Like she's done so. She's done so much publicity for her books, like she's brought her so many new readers. And I was like these people coming into Larry's comment Larry doesn't know who the fuck they are. They're like treating her as they're like her best friend. And I was like Larry has like 600,000 followers on TikTok. She doesn't know who you fucking are, so you're having her back with Rena Kent and you're going after Rena Kent for somebody that doesn't even know you fucking exist.

Jordan:

Honestly, that's just really fucking satire parasocial relationship. Everybody. Some people really make no, honestly, it's the same. Yeah, I can say this. It's the same thing like with this e-person. You know who we interviewed like way, way back back, remember. Thank God it doesn't exist anymore, honestly, but it's the same thing, like people are hyping him up and it's like oh no, but he knows me, I'm his friend, I'm like honey.

Fabienne:

He doesn't know who you are. He doesn't know the fuck you are. You are a little guy.

Jordan:

Honestly, but you go pay that Patreon level honey, that one patron tier, you know, $50 a month honey. You do you, but generally people are really sad sometimes. We are not those people, though, but some people are.

Fabienne:

I think people just don't they like. I think you see how I don't know if it's like dynamic, especially with TikTok, and you see these like talking videos and stuff like I, I love watching videos.

Fabienne:

Yeah, yeah, like TikTok. It's like you just see them talking to a camera. So you see, you see them talking. Yeah, so it's like I like I love Whitney Simmons and I love her get ready with me like, like going to the gym and stuff that I can like. Not that, I think, granted though, I did post about her new, her new like launch for like Gymshark, so I bought her new like Of course you did.

Fabienne:

I did. Yeah, Adapt collection the brown, like the deep brown, and it's so pretty, and I tagged her in it and she commented on it.

Jordan:

I was like she knows who I am. But then there you go.

Fabienne:

There you go, no, exactly. And then I think people get like misconstrued because she's like, like, because they comment and I'm like, she commented, she knows who I am, but like, then they're like. Then they go after people because they like, but like, yeah, yeah, it's insane, it's actually insane it is really insane.

Jordan:

You know. You know what this is. This is actually the mind of a fucking 14 to 15 year old. That's when you do that stuff. But if you're just like our age or like you know about the age of 25, you gotta be reasonable man, be more mature.

Fabienne:

Gotta be reasonable.

Jordan:

No, I mean I say it as a joke, but I mean it generally People above the age of 25 these days, they don't know how to do life, they don't they don't. They don't know how to do life, they don't. I mean, it's just some people. Some people know how to do life. Apparently this tori person, she knows how to do life.

Fabienne:

She's a person now, or arrested but I think it just goes to show like people can, like, like people can. One post can mean different things to different people. So you take this video that larry did that's supposed to be a joke, which I thought of it as a joke. Like I watch her videos. I saw the negative review. I see this video of like her unfollowing her. I laugh and then but other people either go after Rena Kent or other people come after her for like not be like getting upset that the author wants to protect their piece Like I think it's just so interesting that people's minds I almost like wonder if it stems from like an insecurity of like where you are and like how you view things. That is like, oh, that's why you took this post in the direction you took it in. I might be getting too deep. No, I might be going like too deep here.

Jordan:

So like maybe not no, Deep dive into the bookstagram gossip. I kind of love it, though this was literally like your last one. You don't have anything more for me, no, but we can't.

Fabienne:

We can't talk, we can't label every episode deep dive.

Jordan:

Yes, we can, literally every episode. You just said the power is in the palm of our own hands, jordan yes, we can. Literally, the power is in the palm of our own hands, jordan yes, we can oh, it looks like I'm holding my head.

Fabienne:

Oh yeah, but that's all I had for, like the bookish drama I think there was actually more than enough for one episode. I think so too, I think we can.

Jordan:

Okay, yeah just.

Fabienne:

Yeah, so hopefully you enjoyed this bookish drama. I love talking, I love gossiping, I love drama. Give me all the drama.

Jordan:

You know what would be better, though, for next time, when we actually come together again and then we have the same type of conversation. But I bring the truffle fries and you bring the Prosecco.

Fabienne:

Yes, yeah and then we just call it tea time, but then without tea. Tea, but no tea but then I still need to bring the truffle fries and you still need to bring the Prosecco, so that way we can both be. We'll both bring it two portions, two portions each need to bring the Prosecco.

Jordan:

So that way we can both be. We'll both bring it. We'll both bring it. Yeah, yep, two portions we're sharing. Two portions each sharing? I don't think so. No, just leave the bottle.

Fabienne:

Thank you so much for listening and please don't forget to rate and review wherever you can find us.