The Bookish Hour

Interview with Author: Jessie Rosen

• Jor & Fab • Season 2 • Episode 8

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After a successful career in blogging and screenwriting—selling projects to networks like ABC, NBC, and Netflix—Jessie Rosen found her voice in novel writing through a personal family belief: that rings carry the energy of everyone who's worn them before.

"The Heirloom," her breakout novel, explores what happens when a woman insists on knowing the complete history of her engagement ring before accepting it. Jessie reveals how this wasn't mere fictional invention but a deeply held family truth that sparked debate among her own friends when she refused heirloom jewelry for her own engagement. 

Her newest release, "All the Signs," continues this exploration of how beliefs shape our lives, drawing from her real-life experiment of tracking down people with her exact birth chart "star twins" to test the validity of astrology. 

The conversation reveals fascinating insights about her creative process, including how she plots extensively yet allows herself flexibility within that structure, and how morning hours are reserved for fresh writing while afternoons focus on structure and planning. For aspiring writers, Jessie emphasizes the importance of building a consistent body of work that publishers can trust, whether through blogs, newsletters, or social media.

Follow Jessie's journey through her books and her newest project, a Substack newsletter called "Bravery," where she connects with readers between book releases.

Cover Art by: Fabienne and Jordan
Contact email: thebookishhourpod@gmail.com
Intro/Outro music: Season Two: Ramaramaray by Aiyo via Epidemic Sound Season One: Sweet Psycho via TikTok’s Offical Sound Studio on Capcut
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Podcast: @thebookishhourpod
Fabienne: @oxonheart
Jordan: @sipsoffiction

Jordan:

Welcome to the bookish hour with just your. He first made waves in the blogging world with her site, earning honors like times blog top blog, forbes top 100 website for women and a spot among the top 10 websites for millennials. From there she moved into film and television, selling original projects to major networks including ABC, nbc, warner Brothers and even Netflix. While she did release a YA thriller back in 2015, it was in 2023 that she made her powerful return to writing with the Heirloom, one of my top reads of the year so far. Her newest novel, all the Signs, just hit shelves earlier this month and I'm dying to dive in. Please welcome to the podcast. Jessie Rosen. Hi, oh, my gosh.

Jessie Rosen:

Welcome. Thank you for that lovely intro. It was very. This is your life.

Jordan:

Yes, I did. I might've done some research to come up with the perfect intro, and so I tried really hard and yeah.

Jessie Rosen:

I love it. I am honored, so excited to be here and I'm so excited that you found that Heirloom found its way to you, that you found your way to it, so we're going to have so much fun I can already tell oh, I'm so excited, I'm so excited.

Jordan:

I actually I brought I'm holding the Heirloom. I brought it with me Well, granted, I'm in my house, so it's been here but I made sure to have it with me during this interview because I feel like I need it. I need it.

Jessie Rosen:

I mean, I have a copy here too. Look, it's just on my desk too.

Jordan:

Perfect, okay, so I do like to start off every episode with something good that's happened to you this week. Do you have anything that you want to share? It could be something that you did, something that happened, anything.

Jessie Rosen:

Yeah, this week has been special and you're actually a part of it. So this is the week that I am recording all the podcasts, guesting on all the podcasts to get ready for all the signs. So I've had oh my gosh 10 this week, which is such a treat and such an honor to get to have conversations with many of my favorite podcasts, people I'm just meeting, people I've been listening to for a long time. So I would say that's a big one for me and just kind of enjoying it.

Jordan:

Oh, that's so exciting. I'm so happy we're gonna like be on like the, my podcast too, Like that's. So I'm like when, when we like we're able to set this up. I got so excited because I was like yes, it's gonna be great.

Jordan:

Okay, so I have the three, three. I have like three groups of questions like writing, reading, personal, and so we'll start with writing. Um, the first question I noticed that you first started in tv and film and then you wrote your books, kind of not counting the ya thriller. Um, can you tell us about your journey from screenwriting to writing a novel? Is writing for a TV show and film same or different than writing from a book? Writing a book, and how so?

Jessie Rosen:

Yeah. So the transition was kind of let me say this the dream of writing a book was always with me. I am a forever reader. I was a dreamer of this goal from a really young age. Film and TV kind of came to me because it was the style of writing that was really fun for me at the time, like you mentioned, I had started with a blog and I met people through that blog that were in the theater writing world. So I actually was doing plays even before film and TV. But I love film and TV and so this opportunity to write in that format and that style, when that started to kind of percolate for me, I made a big move from the East Coast. I was raised in New Jersey.

Jessie Rosen:

At the time I was living in New York and I up and moved myself to Los Angeles to kind of try my hand at that form of the business selling original scripts, working on different people's projects, ultimately being the head writer of a show that you can actually watch on Amazon called the Baxters. And I think that, if not for the pandemic, I have to say that was a big shutdown moment in Los Angeles. All production came to a halt and so I had this time on my hands, and I also had this sense that the Heirloom had been an idea that was with me for a long time. I had thought about it as a film. That was where I was working, that was where I was comfortable, but something about that always wanted to be a book to me. I think it was a really precious idea of mine, and I think I wanted to have it and hold it and own it in a way that you can with a book and you can't necessarily with film and TV, which kind of speaks to your question about like what are the differences, right? So, first of all, quite literally, legally, one of the differences is just ownership, like your ownership of the intellectual property of a book and, when you start working on a book, your ownership of the process.

Jessie Rosen:

I think the other thing, too, though, is the space and time to immerse in a story for much, much longer. There's a time limit on TV. There's a time limit on film. You're always working in those parameters, including limits of budget. You know you turn a scene in and they're like yeah, that's great, too expensive, we can't shoot that scene.

Jessie Rosen:

So it's really interesting how you have to consider all of that when you're writing for film and TV, when you're writing a book, you get to do whatever you want on the page. You don't have to be thinking about any of those constraints. So I was really excited to dive into that, and that is what I found to be both the beauty of the difference and also the challenge. Right? It's literally a lot more pages, right? No matter how you slice it, a book is so much more content. So it was an uphill battle for me and I think that's where I've continued to grow as a writer is making sure that I'm using everything I learned in film and TV about like structure and order and what makes a page turner, but I am making sure that my format is really fit for a book, describing things in every detail, right? You can't rely on a visual. They're not going to be watching this. So those are the pieces of the puzzle for me.

Jordan:

Oh my God, wait, that's so cool. I like I didn't think of it, but like I know too, like as I was reading this, it like felt like a movie, like I I feel like it followed a movie, so which is gonna? So now I'm going, I'm gonna ask my questions out of order, because we kind of were talking about it. So if the heirloom and all the signs were turned into TV shows or a movie, who would you want to play the two female main characters, shay and Leah?

Jessie Rosen:

I have like a little bit of a cop out answer just because I am so completely obsessed with her. I know your listeners may have also just devoured the latest season of the White Lotus.

Jordan:

Oh my gosh, I loved that.

Jessie Rosen:

I think Amy Lou Wood, who played Chelsea on the White Lotus, I think she can do anything. I think she can play anyone. So I'm picking her for both heirloom and all the signs, just because I want to see her transform into every character I can think of and I want her to. I want to see her transform into every character I can think of and I love her so much. So it feels like an unconventional answer and she may not be a fit for both roles, but see, that's wrong. She's a fit for everything, because that is just how talented Amy Lewood is.

Jordan:

She, she. I loved her. That was the first time I've seen her as Chelsea or I've. The first time I've seen her in like film was as Chelsea and I just I loved that character and I really liked her. Like I was starting to see all these interviews with her and I think she's just like all around a really sweet and nice person too. And I like can't and you know, because I feel like especially like HBO and like the White Lotus 2, like she is going to like go places now, and I hope so, because I want to see her in more things, like I think she will kill it in more things. Yes, I'm speaking it.

Jessie Rosen:

Look, I'm speaking it into the universe. I said it here on this podcast. Amy Lou Wood for all the roles.

Jordan:

Just all of them, so we'll go back to the in order. What does the typical writing day look like for you?

Jessie Rosen:

It depends where I am in the process. So I'll give you like an example of when I'm in the middle of like hard work on a book, and I'll take all the signs as an example. I kind of split my work into two different types of sessions and I find that my brain is the least fried in the morning, and so the morning is usually reserved for drafting, writing, like literal sitting down, writing chapters, you know, that kind of actual work. And then the afternoon, so I'll kind of like wake up, do a little movement, walk the dog, have a little breakfast and then pretty quickly get to work.

Jessie Rosen:

I'm an early riser when I'm working on something intently, mostly because, again, I feel like I'm almost trying to like sneak into the day before it actually gets to me, like I'm like keep the day away and then I'll get my work done and then the day can start. So I'm kind of like trying to get in into the room before anyone else gets in there, you know, and then I'll have lunch, I'll relax a little bit, answer emails, you know, and then I'll have lunch, I'll relax a little bit, answer emails, handle social media stuff, and in the afternoon I usually have a session spent like how's that outline doing? Is it laddering up to what I'm writing? Do I need to make adjustments? Where are my note cards? How is this kind of working in terms of the grid that I built for the book? So I'm kind of doing work of the book, but it's not the writing work, it's more the structure, checking out of my outline, looking at all the pieces of the puzzle of getting ready to write what's next, if that makes sense.

Jordan:

Oh, so then, because you're you mentioned like an outline and like the structure, so would you say you're more of a plotter than a pantser, or would you say you're both one?

Jessie Rosen:

of the other. I'm a plotter, for sure, and a lot of that comes from to answer. Go back to kind of answering your other question. In film and TV you owe an outline as a step of your contract. You have to deliver an outline to the studio or to the network or to the producer that you're working with. So I am so in the rhythm of being prepared with that outline stage or that outline step that I've done that with both books.

Jessie Rosen:

Now have I exactly followed the outline? No way. This makes no sense to me how you can write an outline that makes perfect sense on paper. Then you go to write the book and you're like why isn't this outline working? It's right there, it's over here. So it's interesting because I constantly have to kind of like be looking at the outline, having the plot and then like sometimes pantsing my way through changes to the plot. But I will say I am always going back to that map and revising the map. I think it's actually a part of how I like soothe myself and the anxiety that comes with writing. I think it's more managing that I feel like I know where I'm going, even if I change my course. I think the outline is serving that purpose for me.

Jordan:

I know where I'm going, even if I change my course. I think the outline is serving that purpose for me. Oh, okay, okay, okay. So what is more surprising? Wait, what is the most surprising part of being a published author? I can't, I clearly can't write. I can't read my own questions. I'm so sorry.

Jessie Rosen:

No, I think the most surprising part about being an author. You know, as a reader, you're not as attuned to the way that the book-loving community shows up for authors. You're a book lover yourself. You're watching, you're a reader, you're picking up books, but you're not watching the content that people are creating, the podcasts that they host. The way that people effort to support and love your book is old me over and I've just been so touched by it because you don't. I haven't experienced that in the other formats and genres that I've written in. I think that book lovers are a special breed. I know we are, and I think that it is so lovely and touching the way that they take time out of their own schedule and their own lives to make my career possible. Right, it goes above and beyond people just reading. This is the people who are sharing your book, making art to put on Instagram, hosting an entire podcast. It's really been overwhelming in the most positive way for me and I just I wasn't expecting it.

Jordan:

Oh, I guess I never really thought of it from like that side, because it's like I know for myself, I just like want to talk about books. So it's like that's my thing, is I just I want to talk about books and that's all I want to do. But I guess I never thought like from like the author side, like how that can be for you guys.

Jessie Rosen:

Yes, I mean you're the reader. Community is like a tiny mini army of marketers for me. Yeah, so it's, it's so, so lovely. And when people connect with the book, I mean obviously we write so that we can delight people and offer something and so that you take something away, but you forget that then you get a human to human connection. It's not just a book to reader connection, right, it's like a human to human connection, because there's so much opportunity now. I think that's the good part of social media for us to connect directly, like we are the literal, perfect example of that.

Jordan:

We, yes, yes, we are Okay. So what advice do you have for aspiring authors and authors like that want to be traditionally published, like you are?

Jessie Rosen:

Yeah, this is so hard and I want to say that I have gone a traditional publishing route, but I have a lot of respect for people that self-publish, and especially people that self-publish and then find their way to trad and then back and forth it can go. My advice is kind of the same whether you want to be a published author, or whether you want to be a television writer, or whether you want to be a poet, share your writing. Write often. That's a given. Find any opportunity to share your writing with the community. A, to learn how to receive feedback and notes and that experience. But B.

Jessie Rosen:

I think that building a body of work to be known and therefore trusted as someone that could be published can sometimes take more than just one manuscript. So that can look like so many things these days. Right, that can look like a sub stack, right, a free way to get your writing in the white. That can look like having an Instagram where the comments you write are actually like really beautiful pieces of examples of your writing. Like poetry comes to mind in terms of people that post those kinds of things on Instagram. So I think that nowadays especially, I think publishers are looking to see can I trust that this person is a person that we can stick with for multiple books. You know they're buying one book, but they're thinking of you as a writer that is going to have a lot of material in you, and so having that body of work even if you're just posting your work on your own website it actually really makes a difference. So that's my recommendation Always share your work as often and quickly as possible.

Jordan:

That I like that a lot. Um, okay, so I'm dying for this question, to know the answer. Um, what inspired the plots for the heirloom and all the signs? Because I know, I think I believe I saw somewhere I was gonna put that in here, but then I got nervous that I didn't see it like. Like they're. They're not the same, but they're like, similar in a way. Yes, I call them.

Jessie Rosen:

I'm thinking of them as my eyebrow books. You know how your eyebrows are sisters, not twins, okay, and the answer for what inspired them is the same for both, and the answer is me and my life. You know, I think that so many of us are writing from pieces of experience, and that is the case for both of these books. So I'll start with Heirloom, which is inspired by my own family.

Jessie Rosen:

Superstition about the idea that rings and therefore big time when it comes to engagement rings hold the karma, hold the energy from anyone that's ever worn them Like this isn't even a superstition to my family, it's a fact, it's something we believe. And so, of course, when it was time for me to get engaged, this was the one rule or the one request. No, it was a demand that I had for my then boyfriend no heirlooms, I won't accept it. And it prompted a ton of debate. It prompted a ton of debate with the women in my life. People were like that's ridiculous, you're being ridiculous. Other people were like you love vintage things, you love vintage furniture. Look at your house. Suddenly, a ring is disqualified. So all that conversation planted the seed for the idea, for the story, and I thought what if someone gets proposed to. What if they insist on knowing the energy of the ring? Well, how would you know it? You'd have to know everyone that ever wore it. And so that became the story that I wanted to tell, and weaving it through different places that I wanted to journey was kind of. That was all the fiction, but the seed of the idea was this real thing that I really believe. That prompted conversation in my life, and kind of the same thing goes for all the science, which is about a character that does something that I also set out to do.

Jessie Rosen:

This is a skeptical character, leah Lockhart. She is skeptical about astrology, of all things, something that's like totally in the zeitgeist and everyone's kind of obsessed with it, and she wants to prove that astrology is bogus. And so she sets out to find people with her exact same birth chart. She calls them her star twins to kind of see, do we have any similarities? Like? Her premise is no, I did that.

Jessie Rosen:

I went out in search of my star twins. I found several of them. I interviewed them. So this was part of a project, like a little mission I had for myself when I was trying to figure out aspects of my own life, and it felt like such a rich journey that I decided to instead turn it into a fictionalized story instead of writing, say, a memoir or a series of essays about it. I felt like it was just. There was too much to play with. It needed to be a novel, and so that was the inspo. So these books, they're autofiction, and they're not right Because they have elements of autobiography, but all the characters and the places and everything that comes after that is fictionalized.

Jordan:

Okay. So, like I want to say too, with the heirloom, I naturally gravitated towards it because of the blurb and then, as I was reading it, I related to Shay, like I relate to you. I don't think I ever considered heirloom like rings, but I think that's just because, like, I never considered that. But so a little like inside thing with my, my mom is she actually? She got married years ago but they, they got divorced and I got proposed to actually back in 2023. And my mom's, like you could wear my, my wedding dress. And I was like, actually back in 2023. And my mom's, like you could wear my wedding dress.

Jordan:

And I was like, absolutely not, mom, you are divorced. No way would I ever step any foot near that dress. And she's like, well, you could cut it up and put some of it. And I was like, no, no, no, the bad energy from I want nothing to do with your wedding at all. No, none of that energy, none of that. But I believe that I believe like the energy from that and I mean you guys aren't even together anymore. So like, why would I?

Jessie Rosen:

I don't want that. I completely relate. How did you feel after you read the book? Were you kind of like cause without giving anything away? Actually, this book has been out for a year. Maybe we can give some things away.

Jordan:

I give her like props. I loved the ending and I actually really loved I got. Okay, I'm really trying not to give anything away.

Jessie Rosen:

I okay, I think you can I think the statute of limits on spoilers is over, I say go, go and I am literally in charge.

Jordan:

That is true and it's like also here spoiler warning skip ahead if you don't want spoilers. So when she meets that other guy, I already I'm so bad I forgot his name. Like I forget names.

Jessie Rosen:

I'm totally fine.

Jordan:

So she meets that other guy, graham, and I was rooting for them Because I thought they like I don't know, like I thought they were connecting and maybe because like her and her fiance like weren't doing so well, I was like yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like they kiss and I'm like yeah, and, and then she was, she was like oh, no, no. And then I was like towards the end, like when she's staying with her friends and I didn't, she doesn't know what, which one to choose. I was like, oh, I don't know which one I would choose.

Jordan:

And then I actually really liked that she ended up with her fiance. I thought, I don't know, like I, I really I love the ending you picked for it and I was so happy to hear that. And I, like I know too, because, like I I don't know if you like remember my story because I started reading it and then I switched to the audio book because I had to work the next day but then at the end of the workday I was back home, so then I switched back to reading it and I don't know, Like, I think I do really enjoy the narrator. So anybody that wants to listen to the audio highly recommend.

Jessie Rosen:

Great, great. Enjoy the narrator, so anybody that wants to listen to the audio.

Jordan:

Highly recommend Great, great, great great. I think I don't know. I'm really glad I like finished while reading it, though not listening Because. I think that was like especially that whole ending. Yeah, yeah.

Jessie Rosen:

It's different. It's different to encounter it on the page, and I'll say I get this question a lot right. Did I always know it was going to be John in the end? And the answer is absolutely yes.

Jessie Rosen:

I always knew that, and one of the reasons for that is because I think a lot of people write beautiful stories about a woman who doesn't know herself, and so she goes on a journey and she figures herself out and then she meets the right partner.

Jessie Rosen:

So it wasn't with the right person before because she didn't know herself. I wanted to write a story about a woman that didn't trust herself, so something within her knew and it had navigated to John and John was the right guy, but she didn't have a relationship of trust with herself. So this new person that presents is kind of like oh my gosh, wait a minute, is this really showing me what I'm supposed to be? And her journey is about learning to trust herself and to understand that she had the way to navigate to the right thing. So I feel like those are two such distinct things. And with the version that I was looking to tell, she could never end up with Graham, because it was never about the idea of newness, it was about the idea of what was inside her that she didn't have access to.

Jordan:

Oh, my goodness, I never even considered that, but it makes sense. But I think you're right I do read all these stories that they're romances where they're not with their person and it's a romance where I think this is a love story. So it is messy and it is it's life, and I think that's what I also really enjoyed. I like that. You two, you also put the mystery in there. I mean, they go to Italy. I'm like I'm sitting in the office in a cubicle and I'm like, no, I'm in Italy right now, like I'm living life.

Jessie Rosen:

Me too, me too writing it because I wrote this during the pandemic we were still in the throes of not being able to travel, and so these destinations were like total joy for me, transportive, taking me out of that awful place that we were all in and taking me somewhere else. So, yeah, and I also so appreciate you saying there is romance in this book, but no, it's structurally not a romance at all and it's structurally not even a rom-com. And I do feel like, while there are relationships that are core in love relationships or romantic relationships, this is really a book about a woman and herself and it really is about that dynamic of the relationship between this person and her insides and her heart. And then how is that going to make the other love stories in her life, whether it's with her fiance or with her sister or with, you know, the mother that she lost, like? It's really about her heart changing to allow for all of those relationships to improve.

Jordan:

Yeah, and I two notes too, because I also really enjoyed with the relationship with her mom and how she wouldn't let her tell her that last she wouldn't let her talk about like the ring and stuff like that.

Jordan:

I actually really enjoyed that you wrote it that way and the fact that she was like now we can never know Like you messed up in a way and I think like they were able to accept that. But I feel like a lot of things, a lot of stories are written so everything can be solved, but that's not life and it's not real, and so I really like I also. And then one more thing I really like to that you put in with the ring and it being like well, you can create energy, like you make it like a positive energy, and I guess I never considered that myself and I was like not that I would ever take my mom's wedding dress, but I do think like you can change like the energy of something, and I think that is really cool. So it's like reading this book and it's like I learned something too and I really, really liked this book.

Jessie Rosen:

I like I'm so, so glad and I'll tell you that idea of the fact that the way that it goes in the book, that I think the line in the book might actually be like the woman wears the ring, which suggests that. Like it's not about the relationship, it's not about the other partner, it's about the woman that is holding this thing and deciding what it means. And that's what it was for for Shea's mother. Until I had that line, like until I had that concept, I couldn't figure out how to write the book, because I certainly wasn't going to put something out in the world that suggested that any person that has a vintage item is damned or made the wrong decision. You know, I really needed to be careful about suggesting that, no matter what situation you're in, that can be beauty and strength and your path can be fine going forward. So I'll never forget it.

Jessie Rosen:

Like TMI, I was in the shower and I was thinking about writing this book. I was like it's really time, I really have the time now, I should really do it, but like I don't have a way out of this box that I'm in. And I was in the shower and I literally said to myself oh, oh my gosh, that is so cool.

Jordan:

It's like it's so cool, but it's. I mean, you're right, you're totally right, but wow, yeah, yeah, it's just how it happened. Okay, so this is the last question in writing, but do you have any future projects you're working on that you can give us any hints about?

Jessie Rosen:

any hints about. Yes, I am starting to write chapters on what I really hope will be a third book and I need to get them down to make sure, kind of. I know the tone of this one is going to be different, but I'm playing with writing it from the third person versus the first person, so I just want to see how that feels and get that down and then kind of all know exactly what I'm pitching to my editor. And here's what I'll say. It involves travel. Of course we cannot have a book without it. It involves ons of a family and how they're changing because of a very big decision by one of the family members, and I feel like those are such themes that are inside both of the books so far right About like who we are as people and what we need to do for ourselves, what impact that has on everyone else and how that helps us all grow, moving forward, even if the growing pains are very tricky and very sticky. So that's that's where I'm at very tricky and very sticky.

Jordan:

So that's where I'm at. Ooh, I'm so excited. Oh, my gosh, okay, okay. So now we'll dive into reading what is your favorite book and or series, a book you would recommend to anyone and everyone.

Jessie Rosen:

Well, I'm going to recommend something that is the thing I go back to for a number of reasons, inspiring my own writing, and that I just think is an incredible book. And it's an older book. It's the Secret History by Donna Tartt, a real classic. And one of the reasons that I love this book is because it pairs something that I'm always trying to do in my writing, which is thought turning, page turning action and true deep emotional character development, and I think that's really, really hard to do. So I always go back to the secret history.

Jessie Rosen:

It has mystery, it has, you know, multiple narratives, it has characters that are changing and growing, like I try to infuse my writing with, and it does it in a way that doesn't feel like a thriller. Even though there's thrill, it's not a mystery. Even though there's mystery, it's not a romance. Even though there's romantic elements. It just defies the genre and delivers you a really good story. And I always think of Donna Tartt when I'm writing, because I think, like no quiet, the noise about genre, write the story that needs to be told, it'll find its way, and I think she did a really good job of that. So I recommend it to writers a lot as an example, but obviously for readers it's such a good one.

Jordan:

I have to say, like I've heard like a lot of people have recommended that book and I like want to read it and I know I will. I just haven't yet, but like I want to, like, I've heard amazing things On that. Forever TBR, it really is Okay. So what is one line of writing, poetry or a quote that lives in your head? Rent free.

Jessie Rosen:

The first thing that comes to mind is something that is a poem. But the reason I know it this is so me right, like the reason I know it is because of a movie, because I'm such a film and TV lover, and it is that quote that listeners may know from Willy Wonka, which is we are the music makers and we are the dreamers of dreams. Willy Wonka says it in the movie, but it's actually an Arthur O'Shaughnessy poem and the poem is called Ode. But you know, there's something so beautiful about I think I love it because it's about this like ownership of, like I'm a creator. You know, I make, I dream, I do those things and I I'm. I really identify with that. It really inspires me to have that as something that's core to my soul. It's like something I'm really proud of about myself. So I think that's why it always comes to mind.

Jordan:

I do really like that quote, but I don't. Is that okay? I have to ask is that the Willy Wonka like the first one, or is that the more recent movie it's?

Jessie Rosen:

definitely in the first one. It's definitely in the old Gene Wilder version, which is the one that I grew up with. I don't know if it's in the who is it Johnny Depp? I don't know if it's in the Johnny Depp version or the Timothee Chalamet version, but oh I didn't even think of that one.

Jordan:

I know, I know I only I grew up with the like the older one, like the Willy Wonka one too, but I haven't seen it in so long that I don't remember that quote. But I feel like now I need to go watch it.

Jessie Rosen:

He just it's. You know, that movie has like a lot of kind of interesting. Like that character kind of like says things off the cuff and he says it in the movie in a really powerful moment. So, yeah, I can't wait for you to go back and watch it.

Jordan:

Oh, I'm so excited. Okay, so the last one for reading is if you could have a literary dinner party with three authors, living or dead who would you invite and why?

Jessie Rosen:

I have my three, but I haven't considered I like kind of forgot that we would all be at dinner together. So I was just like, okay, these are the three people I want to talk to. But then I didn't consider what what this will be like as a dinner party dynamic. But I'm saying my three.

Jordan:

I think they're going to get along.

Jessie Rosen:

I'm going to think they're going to get along because I like them all and I think they're going to get along. I think they're going to get along because I like them all and I think it'll be an interesting conversation. Okay, so I mean I have to have Louisa May Alcott, because Little Women is Bible to me and I am one of four girls and so her writing about her sisters, I just she's got to be there. I have so many questions for her. So my number one is Louisa May Alcott. My number two is also someone who's no longer with us. It's the incredible poet, mary Oliver, and I love her poems and I just she sees the world in dark and light in a really beautiful way, and she's always able to kind of cut through the darkness and offer levity, and it's something I aspire to in myself. So when I'm caught between the two, I go to her poems and I just think she and Louisa would get along. So I think that that's going to work out. Also, they're both ghosts, so they'll have that to talk about.

Jessie Rosen:

And then my third person who is very much living is the author Kevin Wilson. I feel like this may sound like a strange pick, but Kevin Wilson wrote this absolutely incredible book. It's called Nothing to See here and it is about a woman who ends up being the nanny for children that spontaneously set fire, like fire comes from within them. It's a wild premise. It's one of my favorite reads of all time, even though it's a recent read. It was probably published four or five of all time, even though it's a recent read, probably published four or five years ago, and since then I've read everything that Kevin Wilson writes. All of his books had these really interesting, bizarre, very creative setups, these huge hooks, and I'm so fascinated by them and fascinated by him. So I have to talk to him and I'm not entirely sure how he's going to get along with Mary and will be up. I think it's going to be fine because I know that he'll have deeper spec for them. So I think it's going to work out. And those are my three.

Jordan:

Yeah, no, it would be perfect and I think that would be. I want to sit in that on that dinner party Like I want to hear those answers.

Jessie Rosen:

Totally.

Jordan:

Okay, so we're at the last part, which is personal, and there's two questions. So the first one is what is a fun fact about you that your readers or listeners might be surprised to learn?

Jessie Rosen:

I know, I've really struggled with this because I feel like I'm to a certain degree, I'm like really an open book. So I'm going to say this I am a massive scaredy cat. I'm really scared when it comes to, like huge example, horror films. Like I don't go to them. I don't think that's entertaining, right? I'm this big scaredy cat when it comes to things like that.

Jessie Rosen:

Except as a reader, I'm like really drawn to thriller. So it's so interesting to me that something about, like, if I can control it by reading it on the page and I read a ton of thriller, there's something different than me watching it. Like, again, I read all Stephen King and don't see any of the movies. So I don't know, I don't know what that disconnect is for me, the difference between reading it I can read Stephen King in bed at 11 o'clock when my husband's not home, like no problem, I'm not afraid. And yet I will never see, for example, the movie it, and certainly not in theaters, my God, but I don't even think at my own home. So I feel like this is a weird thing about me. It may even be weird to say that I read a lot of thriller, but even weirder is the fact that I can do that and I cannot watch scary movies Interesting, I like that.

Jordan:

Well, okay, so I'm going to insert another question what is your favorite thriller of all time? I'm guessing a Stephen King one.

Jessie Rosen:

I mean, I think it's to be honest with you, the first book that was, I would say, thriller that I read and was so wowed by that it like cracked everything open for me and I started reading more thriller was Carrie, which is like the pinnacle of the original, and so I really I have to point to that just because I think it, I never would have read thriller at all, and the only reason I read Carrie is because I read Stephen King's great book on writing. As I was approaching you know, I was younger in my writing career and I was just inspired by his process and everyone says that's one of the great tomes of writing advice is that book. And so after reading that book and he talks so much about developing Carrie and about that book I was like, well, I have to now start reading actual Stephen King. And that's how it started.

Jordan:

Wait, is this also why you wrote that YA thriller?

Jessie Rosen:

started. Wait, is this also why you wrote that YA thriller? Yes and no. Yes, because I felt comfortable enough being like, oh, I have read a bunch of thriller, I could weave this story, I could figure this out. Yeah, and the other answer to that question is that started as a television pitch.

Jessie Rosen:

So my TV manager thought it could be a fun hook for something like the CW at the time when the CW was kind of still in its big heyday, and so we created a television pitch and then ultimately, when it didn't sell as a TV pitch, I was really encouraged to try to write it as a novel, and I owe so much to the people that have been part of my whole writing journey who have seen and believed what I was capable of before I was able to see it and it pushed me in that direction. So, yes, I had a knowledge of thriller and I liked thriller, but it was really because of the suggestion of my amazing manager, rachel Miller. And another fun fact I did that book with at an agency that was called Foundry, with an agent named Molly Glick, and years later Molly Glick moved to CAA, my current agency, and I got to work with her again on Heirloom and All the Signs, and so it's so interesting, right? Perhaps this whole story about enjoying thrillers is I owe my whole career to it. I'm not sure.

Jordan:

Oh, my wait, that's so cool and like, and I think that just shows you it's also like a sign that like it is meant to be. It is. It's meant to be yes. Okay, so we're on the last question. So sad. What is one future goal that you would like to achieve, either long term or short term, and it could be in writing, anything bookish or personal too.

Jessie Rosen:

Yeah, I think I would be so sad if my writing career ended without me writing something about the writing process. I do coaching of writers. I've offered workshops on writing. I really love the craft of writing and I think, more importantly, I love turning people that don't think they're writers into writers. There's something really magical about that to me.

Jessie Rosen:

I have this theory that the fastest way to change your life is to write a book, and so I'm always kind of thinking about what I could offer as I get further along in my career and as I truly feel like I have a real knowledge of the form. It's so funny, right? I've been at this for almost 20 years and yet I still feel like, no, no, I have to. I have to make sure I really have the right things to say before I create something like that, whether it's a book or otherwise. But it's a big dream to be able to like leave this world and leave that behind so that other writers may feel some calm or some peace or some tips and tricks because of what I learned oh okay, that that's actually really cool.

Jordan:

Now I will expect to see that at some point. I love it also.

Jessie Rosen:

I should just say, like everything has been so like writerly and heady and thoughtful and readily I I mean, another goal of mine is to just be a better cook. So there there's something I want to offer, something simple as well as well.

Jordan:

I like that. I like that too. Granted, I like I. I want to be able to cook, but it's not that I want to be able to cook. I wish I just liked cooking.

Jessie Rosen:

I'm I don't like to cook, I'm so glad you said that I think that's the category I'm into, like I can cook, it's not, you know, I just want to like it. I think that's what I'm saying.

Jordan:

I like yeah, exactly like I don't, because I I for the longest time like ever since I was in high school, I'd just be like it. I think that's what I'm saying. I like, yeah, exactly Like I don't, cause I I, for the longest time like ever since I was in high school, I'd just be like, oh, like, when I get my own place, I'll cook. And then it's like I moved in with roommates and then I was like, no, when I have my own own place. And then I moved in with, like, my boyfriend at the time, and then I was like, oh, then quarantine and COVID and all that happened and I'm like, oh, yeah, now I'll cook. And I'm like, no, I still am not cooking Like I. So I'm like I realized I just I don't, I don't like it and I wish I liked it.

Jessie Rosen:

You know, hearing you say this, I'm like I support us, not liking it. I'm canceling my thing. I want to learn. I don't want to do it. You're right, I don't. I don't want to do it. I just want to want to do it because I think that's good. Wow, this has been really therapeutic. Thank you so much.

Jordan:

You're so welcome. I mean, does your husband like to cook at least?

Jessie Rosen:

He loves it. Oh see, we're fine, we're fine, it is what we're fine.

Jordan:

We're fine, you, he, he's starting, mine is starting to kind of like it. He's like I'm really enjoying it. I'm like perfect, you cook, I'll do the dishes and we're golden.

Jessie Rosen:

Yeah, I mean, it truly is golden over here. I'm living that life and so I don't know why I'm looking to upset the apple cart. I think you're right. I think this is very much probably internalized about how a woman is supposed to be in a marriage. I think this is evidence of our culture, and you know what I'm rejecting it. I take it back. Rewind the tape.

Jordan:

You're going to work on that book for writers. That's exactly right, and nothing else. Nothing, just that. Well, also all fiction books too, like I want you to work on that other project and like Okay good, okay good.

Jessie Rosen:

Yeah, don't forget those. Don't forget those. At least I don't have time to cook and that's it.

Jordan:

Yeah, exactly, your time's taken up. Sorry, there's only so much time in the day and you're busy. I want to give you the floor. Is there anything you want to like, plug or like your website?

Jessie Rosen:

I also put things in the show notes too, so yeah, no, I'm so grateful for the support and the love. You know all the signs of my second novel is out now and I do. I'm so excited to hear how this novel makes people think about what they want in their lives and what journeys they may want to go on. So I'm really excited to hear from readers about that. And just the other thing I'm excited about is I recently started a Substack, so it's braverybyjessierosensubstackcom and it's given me a chance to. You know, books take such a long time to get together and to write and to publish and I was missing that more regular interaction with people around ideas that are important to me, so hence the sub stack. So I feel like that's the in-between of the books. Not fiction, it's nonfiction, it's almost like memoir about my life, but it is this cool opportunity to connect with people in between the books.

Jordan:

Oh my gosh, Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I had so much fun chatting with you and thank you.

Jessie Rosen:

It was so fun, much fun, chatting with you and thank you. It was so fun, just like I knew it would be. It's really nice to connect with you and thank you. Thank you because this all started, because you were so sweet about the heirloom it's so good it's.

Jordan:

I'm like, I'm actually so I think this it's like another sign, like I really truly believe I. I just I don't even. I like saw it in my indie bookstore, like when I saw it and I just I picked it up and it was just like so random, like I didn't see it anywhere, like I didn't.

Jessie Rosen:

Yes.

Jordan:

That's like, it's just like so cool.

Jessie Rosen:

Yeah, yeah, wait, let's finish by shouting out your indie bookstore, where you found it no-transcript.

Jordan:

I hope you enjoyed this episode. Please feel free to rate and review us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen, and if there's any interviews or conversations you would like me to have with someone specific, please reach out either email or through our Instagram, available in the show notes and happy reading.