The Bookish Hour

Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins

• Jor & Fab • Season 2 • Episode 11

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Suzanne Collins has done it again, masterfully filling in the blanks of the Hunger Games universe while breaking our hearts in the process. We dive deep into how this prequel transforms our understanding of the alcoholic mentor from District 12, exploring his journey from a non-drinker to the broken man who could barely function without liquor in the original trilogy. 

What makes this exploration particularly fascinating is how it reveals that resistance against the Capitol didn't begin with Katniss. From Lucy Gray Baird to Haymitch to finally Katniss Everdeen, there's been a continuous thread of rebellion stretching across generations of Panem citizens. We examine the unexpected connections between characters across books, including the revelation that Katniss' father had Covey heritage, creating a subtle lineage that runs throughout the saga.

We also can't help but speculate about the upcoming film adaptation slated for November 2026, debating potential casting choices and reminiscing about our teenage obsessions with the original Hunger Games movies (including Jordan's confession about owning a Mockingjay pin!).

Whether you've just finished the book or are deciding if it's worth reading, join us for this spoiler-filled conversation about trauma, resilience, and how the most unexpected characters can become essential threads in the tapestry of revolution. May the odds be ever in your favor!

Cover Art by: Fabienne and Jordan
Contact email: thebookishhourpod@gmail.com
Intro/Outro music: Season Two: Ramaramaray by Aiyo via Epidemic Sound Season One: Sweet Psycho via TikTok’s Offical Sound Studio on Capcut
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Podcast: @thebookishhourpod
Fabienne: @oxonheart
Jordan: @sipsoffiction

Jordan:

welcome to the bookish hour with joran fob.

Fabienne:

No, that's like a thing of mine that I always have to repeat whatever he says. It's like a stupid, stupid habit, but you know I like it. I like it do, we, do we.

Jordan:

I mean, why not? Why, very true, take a crazy chance. Why not do a crazy dance? I don't know.

Fabienne:

I think, girl, I don't know why, there's that again a reference that I do not get you know. You know what we should do when we do get like together. Do not get you know. You know what we should do when we do get like together, whenever I feel like we should do like like one of those um sleepovers that you see in, like all those teen movies where we just up watching the entire night having popcorn, wines, coke, zeros and just like the whole shebang, and then watch all of these you know cliche, dick, flick movies and then then, finally, I will understand all of your references, all of your pop culture references yes, honestly.

Jordan:

Yes, that is what we should do, just because, oh, those like 2000 movies, like the mid to late 2000 movies, honestly, early 2000s, because, if you count, legally blonde, that was right true, that was right before?

Fabienne:

wait, no, that it wasn't. Was that the zeros? Was that in the 90s? No zero is definitely zeros. Yeah, it was 2001 yeah, girl, you and your dates and movies look at you. You would do so well with one of those tv shows.

Jordan:

You know where you can want like one million dollars if you know this question but only, like 2000s, movies that I've seen, like if I haven't seen it, I don't, I don't know. So only those. So it's like if they were to ask me when, what year legally blonde was released, I could give you, I could win that question, but that's about it that's like my one one hidden talent not so hidden anymore, is it since?

Fabienne:

no, all the fine folk of the bookish hour know like know about it now all 30 of them you shouldn't give away. You shouldn't give away our deeds, just just don't, don't, don't, don't give that away. Some things must be hidden, something must be 30 000 oh right, I just cut you off like I do. Yeah, I just did it poorly this time.

Fabienne:

Um, okay, two questions for you okay well, I actually just one, or like two wrapped in one. Do you want to? Do you have a good weekend. If so, do you want to share it, or or should we just dive in this episode?

Jordan:

I don't have a good week, but I do want to share what happened to me earlier today. But it's not necessarily good week, but it's just like one of those things that like, of course it happened, so like Nick already left for work, so it's just me, and Nero is still a kitten, so he does kitten things. And one of those kitten things is he'll poop in the litter box, which is good job, good job. But then he proceeds to step in said poop trying to cover it, and then we'll jump out of the litter box, shake his feet to get the poop litter off, proceeds to spread it everywhere. Then, as I'm trying to clean him and give him a bath, it's getting all over me. So not only did I have to clean him up, then I had to clean the stuff up and then I had to take a shower. So that was what my morning consisted of and I felt like I really needed to share that and I was just like thank you course.

Jordan:

Nick already left and I had to do it by myself.

Fabienne:

It's like he had like some sort of foresight, you know, like he saw this was coming and he was like you know what honey babe, I see you later. I'm gonna go now. Good luck, Godspeed.

Jordan:

Godspeed, yeah, so I had to share that. Did, did. Okay, did you have something you wanted to share, or did you just want to dive in?

Fabienne:

not like anything in particular.

Jordan:

I actually just really want to dive in because when I got your text earlier today and you said that you finally finished sunrise under reaping- I okay, yes, hi yes, yes, yes I was like so close to finishing last night that I was like I probably had like two and a half hours left, like at eight o'clock at night. But I was like yes, yes, yes, and I would have had to wait a whole week to talk about it. So I was like I can't.

Fabienne:

I could not have waited any longer to be really honest with you. I know that we had something else in mind for today, which I will not say because we can save that for another later episode, but I was so happy that you texted me and like honey, I finished, I finished this book. I'm like yes.

Jordan:

I'm like so, like I'm, I'm like so happy that it ended up like working out that, like we could discuss it today, and like I I finished, oh my God. And poor Haymitch, he got like the short end of the stick for like everything, president Snow killed everyone. He loves.

Fabienne:

He really did. You know what's really interesting actually, look, okay, the thing is when you write a prequel to a series and obviously you can write all the things that you may have hinted at, in, like previous books, so like the original trilogy, right, but a lot of things make so much more sense now as well, if you look at it from your current perspective, having all this new information from this prequel. And then if you, for example, also like look at the from your current perspective, having all this new information from this prequel, and then if you, for example, also like look at the, like the films of the, the original hunger games, you're like, oh wait, it makes so much more sense why he is the way he is in that movie, or you know it. Just, it all just like clicks. But I, I, actually I I cried when um lenore dove, like oh, when she died.

Jordan:

Oh my god, and with the gumdrop tears in my, in my eyes, it was so sad jord it was like it was, oh my god, it was so sad because it was like he had just got, like got to her and she this gumdrop, and he's like wait, what do you mean? Those aren't the ones I gave you. And then like, oh, it was so sad. I was like no, but like you kind of know that it's coming because he doesn't have anybody. Very true, so like you kind of know, hi Roto, I know.

Fabienne:

He's like very's clean.

Jordan:

I can, I can see you watched him well, but I feel like I wasn't sure if, if we would get a sort of thing where lenore would be maybe alive for a little bit and then she would like I don't know if like would kill her off later because clearly, like, he's a drunk and an alcoholic, like in the hunger games trilogy. So you knew that was coming and you knew, like his backstory was going to be really heartbreaking because of that, especially when the book started off with him like not being a drinker. I'm like, oh, like the fact that I I kind of like that suzanne did that like started the book being like, oh, he, like I'm not a drinker, I'm like not a big drinker.

Fabienne:

I don't like I'm gonna give this like white liquor away to the like him being like not able to function without alcohol now and it just like, oh, it breaks my heart I know, I mean, I I think he also like specifically tells who was this guy um heavensby, like when he was not a game maker, but like yet when he was like still like doing this prop thing, like the propaganda, like thing for um yeah, like the capital when he was covering.

Jordan:

Yes to tell of his eyes, sort of thing. Yeah, like the.

Fabienne:

He was put in District 12 to show everyone, you know, like the propaganda for like the Hunger Games, anyways. But I think he got handed by Havaspe like a drink and he was like I'm not like a big drinker myself and then, thinking of how he is now in the Hunger Games, I was like, oh my God, that is so sad, it is actually really sad, Right, and I'm like I was reading this and as so, like side note, as I was reading this, I ended up buying President Snow's sequel or prequel. Oh, you did.

Jordan:

Yeah, because I kind of now want to read it. Like I almost wish I started with that one. Then this one then dived into the Hunger Games, because as I'm reading this I'm like, fuck, now I really want to reread the Hunger Games. But then I was like, well, I haven't read President Snow's story. So I don't know if maybe I'll read the Hunger Games again and then go into President Snow's story or read President Snow and then the hunger games. But I really liked the epilogue where it like jumps way into the like future, talking about katniss and pita and like and like. That's like the. That made me sad too, because he's like I don't want to get anybody, like I don't want to become close to anybody and that's like why he kept pushing them away.

Fabienne:

And oh my gosh, it was just so sick I know, and even if you think about it now too again, like when you have all this new mission and then you look again back at like the trilogy, right and um, so he got reaped, but this time um, so in, um catching fire. When it's another uh, quarter quell, hamish is actually legally reaped this time, but then obviously peter like jumps in and volunteers as a tribute, but this like his first time. He wasn't like reaped um legally, but he just got reaped twice and that makes it even sadder.

Fabienne:

Actually I don't you know, like on a quarter of quell as well, like the first time oh, because like the second time he yeah, yeah yes, I mean she really like what was her name, like susanne call is, like the writer, she, I mean we all knew how hamish's, like hunger games, how that ended because of all the glimpses and like the snippets that we have been shown, slash, told through, like various point of views, how we won the Hunger Games and I think, mockingjay. I want to say part one, the movie but also like snippets in Catching Fire.

Jordan:

Well, so I don't remember like snippets, but I remember in book one Katniss asking him like on the train, on the way to the Capitol, I believe, where she was, like how, like how did you win the games? And he's like it was very interesting because I remember thinking the whole time before I started this book that he always told Katniss and PETA that basically he hid, he hid away and he didn't do anything and all his advice was to hide, to run and hide and be the last one standing. So I thought it was very interesting because I didn't know how she would play into that. But I think it's really cool because he literally did so much, but a lot of what he did was like the going behind President Snow and like trying to sabotage the game. So of course President Snow is not going to show any of that. So what he does, what ends up on the screen for all to see, does look like he's like a coward hiding. So he plays into that. And so I thought that was very interesting and I thought that was kind of cool how that came to, like how she did that. So it's like I don't know like I, because I was, I was just like very curious how she was going to go about his story and I thought she did it really well.

Jordan:

Like how? Because I I still believe that this book and president snow's story wasn't necessarily a story she was ever gonna write like I think it started and ended with the hunger games trilogy. But I have a feeling the sick, the success behind behind the books and the movies, like she was. Either she was like yes, want to write more, or I think more so her publisher and agent and editor were like you should write more. And she's like OK, maybe, because, if you think about it, like, I believe the first trilogy came out in 2008. And then we got President Snow's story in 2000. Granted, I think like to the, I mean the movie. I think the books came out in like 2008 ish. Then the movie, the first one, came out in 2012, 13, 14, 15 so I think yes so I think, just like the success of all of that they were.

Jordan:

I think she had been working on President Snow's prequel, and maybe President Snow's prequel is always going to come, who knows. But I don't necessarily believe that it was like her original idea to begin with. But with what you were saying, I do agree with you that I think this is a prequel to Catching Fire.

Fabienne:

Yeah.

Jordan:

Yeah, because of all the people. And it even explains to like how, um, why eris? Because, like even in the movies, you you know how she's kind of like. She says random things but, like you know, something's like wrong with her and I didn't even make the connection when she was their mentor and she like talked completely normal. I didn't even realize until he comes back from the games and she's like not right anymore.

Jordan:

So I was like oh my god, I forgot that. Like she wasn't, she would just say like like I just remember, in the movies for catching fire she just kept saying tick tock, tick tock, tick tock, to explain that it was a clock, but like no one was understanding why she was doing that. So I don't know. Like I think it was really cool how she she like explained different things, and now I just really hope we get a prequel for mockingjay.

Jordan:

I hope you have any idea or like guesses as to whose prequel that might be or like from you know the perspective I still well after what you mentioned, because you were saying finnick and I would love a finnick story, but I think you said somebody else too that I don't joanna.

Fabienne:

I wouldn't have met if it weren't joanna see, I want finnick more.

Jordan:

I feel like we need a finnick story just because of his ending in the mockingjay that I'm like he needs yeah, he needs his own story. But I don't, I don't know. But I heard so I was talking to nick about sunrise on the reaping and he was saying that he saw some. He's like I don't know if it's actually real or if it's like a fan cast, but like some stuff behind the movie for Sunrise on the Reaping which, with the success rate of the Hunger Games and the Ballad of Songbird and Snakes or whatever, I'm like you know there's going to be a movie on this. Like when is it coming out? I don't know, but you know there will be a movie.

Fabienne:

Oh no, it definitely will be like a date has been set already, actually like next next year, honey, november 20th, or I think, november 20th 2026. Yes, yeah, yeah, and there's really like rumors as to who is going to be like casted for cast casted. Who's going to be like the young image cast? I don't know what the past tense is what have you?

Jordan:

what have you seen?

Fabienne:

I haven't seen anything I have seen like um, ralph finds, the guy who plays voldemort in the harry potter movies he is going to. There's like rumors of him being cast as a younger. Um, uh, snow, which I I didn't.

Fabienne:

I mean honestly, I would have rather seen like a no name, or actually keever sutherland, who is the son of the actual actor who portrayed snow in the first trilogy, because they were so much alike, and he actually is like the same age as in this prequel, so that would have made so much more sense. And he actually is like the same age as me in this prequel, so that would have made so much more sense.

Jordan:

That would have been fucking cool.

Fabienne:

Right and I don't really know who. They either like a fan cast or like rumored to cast for Haymitch, something, something, something with a Tom. I want to say I don't know. I can look it up for you in a hot second. I will.

Jordan:

Tom Holland.

Fabienne:

No, not God. I hope not, that would I mean. I really like Tom Holland, but he would be a terrible hate match.

Jordan:

I don't know. I think he could actually be a good Haymitch, young Haymitch, like I'm thinking of his character in Spy Kids, and I think he could be a good young Haymitch, but not a Haymitch now, like not in the Hunger Games, spider-man.

Fabienne:

Spy Kids. That was no Spider-Man, yes, sorry. Spy Kids actually is a great movie, but that's like with spies and their kids.

Fabienne:

And no spiders Antonio Banderas, yeah, and Carla, something, something, and then, anyways, you just nod, yes, spy Kids actually is a great movie, anyways, we, you just nod, yes, spike is actually a great movie, anyways, yes, spider-man, I'll look it up for you who they have for Hamish, but then also for Heavensby God, I forget his name, do you know? Wait, do you know Kirsten Dunst, the actress? Yeah, yeah, okay, do you happen to know who her partner is, like who her husband is? It's also an actor. Oh well, they, there's rules going around like, yeah, that'd be, yeah interesting he's gonna be like heavens, heavens be who would want cast as Haymitch?

Fabienne:

Honestly, I don't really have a set preference, but I have seen, even before this book came out, or you know, yeah, before this book came out. I think it's this one guy who got burned in house of the dragon, like this king. Have you seen house of the dragon?

Jordan:

I know you have seen game of thrones I've seen house of the dragon but I couldn't tell you, oh, like a kid, no, no no, no, amen a agon, something, something oh oh, oh, listen, listen.

Fabienne:

You have like the guy with like the eye patch and then his brother yeah, the yeah and he later yeah, but then without like his pale whatever yeah, and like without the blonde hair, he's more of like a dark blonde and he's our he has.

Fabienne:

He's like a more I don't know better. He has a better look if he's not playing in house of the dragon. Um, I think actually he might. Yeah, I think he might be a good fit for it. But you know, they, all the rumors, they they seem true and not rumors yeah so I I kind of agree with you.

Jordan:

I almost like feel like they should give especially haymitch, should be like kind of a no-name person, I feel like, because I feel like I would young, I think I think that would be my preference actually yeah, because I feel like president snow was like a no-name to like young president snow and kind of too with like lucy, lucy gray I think she was more because it like rachel she did like west side story so like she had a little bit of recognition but like she wasn't anybody like really big at it, like that they could have cast. So I feel like I think it would be kind of cool if they gave hey mitch like to a no name. I kind of agree like that. Let me just look it up because I think actually it's.

Fabienne:

It's a little bit of a similar like to rachel's situation. Like you would, he would have probably like done some cat, like some acting roles before, but it's not like a big name or anything.

Jordan:

Rumor cast young but that would be amazing for it to come out like in the november of next year, like 2026.

Fabienne:

I would die honestly, just in time for my birthday. Okay, so his name is charlie plumber. Can you see, honestly, just in time for my birthday. Okay, so his name is Charlie Plummer.

Jordan:

Can you see, as a young Hay, Is that like who's the guy next to him? I don't.

Fabienne:

The older guy is like Ralph Fiennes, like the Voldemort guy.

Jordan:

Oh, so he would be the President Snow guy. I don't know if I like that young kid as Haymitch.

Fabienne:

The only thing that I like is that he is someone that I don't know. Yeah, for some reason, I think movies that have like such you know, such like an expectation to live up to. I feel like if there's people in there that you know have done all, if you would really weird example, but if you would like throw a brat pit in there, I'm like I don't know if that would work. I want to have, like all the people who you know deserve to portray, like these characters, to like their own um, in their own way, kind of thing. Yeah, yeah, I think so, and I think if you throw, like you know like an, like an Anne Hathaway or not, that she's ready for this movie.

Jordan:

But I just don't want, like all the big people, like I wouldn't want, like Leonardo DiCaprio, to play like a young President Snow, like I feel like it has to be like certain people, because I feel like for the Hunger Games I liked Jennifer Lawrence, but she wasn't that big yet. I feel like the Hunger Games made her big, like she was in some like good movies, like she was in a in some like good movies, like she was in x-men, but not like a really big role. It wasn't like a star role. She was like kind of like a side character.

Jordan:

She did a couple indie films and like I especially the first hunger games, like that like I learned, like I read so much about that movie because I was so excited for it, yeah, and I think like they cast that perfectly because they had some people that were bigger names at the time, like Liam Hemsworth had just did the last song with Miley Cyrus and I think his name was like a little bit bigger.

Jordan:

And then there was Josh Hutcherson, which he was he's kind of like at the time. He was like in things out of things, but like people knew who he was and like, and then of course, like uh, donald Sutherland I think his first name is Donald Don, I think so. I think I think so I'm not positive, but like I know he's like a pretty big, like he's like a bigger actor, but like the fact that he had like a smaller role as president snow, I thought that was like kind of cool how they like did that so. But I think, like especially the hunger games trilogy and honestly the the president snow's uh prequel, like I think they did a very good job casting.

Fabienne:

So I feel like as long as it's like the same people.

Jordan:

I think I kind of agree with you like they'll do a good job casting this one. At least I hope so, because I feel like you need to you kind of need to? Yes, so we'll like put it in their hand. I mean there's not, it's we'll like put it in their hands. I mean it's not like we couldn't not put it in their hands, but like hopefully they don't fuck it up. But going back to like the book, can I ask you how many stars you rated it?

Fabienne:

Four and a half.

Jordan:

Oh my gosh, Not five stars.

Fabienne:

No, not five stars.

Jordan:

I did rate mine five stars. I was like five stars for you.

Fabienne:

I don't know. I think I mean I read it like I want to say one sitting, but that's like a big well, it was a big, fat lie. I mean I read it like I did, but not like one sitting. There were some parts that I would have wanted to see different well, I guess.

Fabienne:

so I mean, well, not, how do I explain this? Um, I was a little bit disappointed with how, but I think maybe that was like the point of it all too like how, because I expected for lenore dove to die, like from the first page that we knew of her existence. I thought, okay, this is going to just go downwards, downhill from here anyways, because we don't know about her existence in the Hunger Games trilogy. So something must have gone wrong from this book to 24, 25 years later when Katniss and Peta are reaped for the Hunger Games. So you know that she's gonna die or you know, you have like this feeling.

Fabienne:

But it felt so anticlimactic, um, like it was just like, you know, like a poisonous berry or like a poisonous gumdrop, and I'm like I think maybe that's the point of it all, um too, because I think I have seen some people note on it how it's similar to Katniss and Peeta eating like those night nightlock berries, almost like the nightlock. So I think it was like, like it was some sort of like I don't know symbolism for that, maybe, but it just went so fast I don't really know what I would have wanted. I think it worked really well for this story and I think it worked really well for you know, like the overall character growth or like character um downfall exactly yeah, um, uh, from Hamish, but I don't know, I think I don't know what I wanted, but I it just felt like so abrupt.

Fabienne:

But I also think maybe that's that was the entire point, because you know, one moment she was there and then the other moment she wasn't. Um, what I actually did really like was how it fucked with district 12's tributes, minds, how luella, how she was just like also dead, but then they came in with like lulu, I mean also luella, but then like lulu and I was, I thought that was, I mean obviously like it's fucking sick and it's fucking twisted, um, but I think that was a really curious and well written, um, I guess, story drive, if that makes sense. Like you know, like um, um, a plot drive. How do you say that? I don't know. But I don't know, I'm, my thoughts were really all over the place. It wasn't a five-star read for me, like again, because I had some I don't know expectations, but then also I don't know what I wanted.

Fabienne:

I don't know what I would have had, but it wasn't yeah, yeah, I do.

Jordan:

I thought it was cool with lulu and luella, or luella with that side of it, because I think that's from iron flame oh, onyx sword, that we didn't know that was either a place or like oh, my god, I forgot.

Jordan:

I forgot, honestly, that book. Like I read it and then it just left my brain and you just brought it right back in. I am so sorry but I, I like, I like that they she added that in there, especially because it's almost like it's like that if you were to actually read this in order, it gives you what happened to pita. It's like a foreshadowing of, like him being mind altered, because she's like I'm luella mccoy from district 12. I'm luella mccoy from district 12, so I think it's kind of cool that they she threw that in there. So I agree with you. I actually.

Jordan:

So bringing it back to Lenore and how, when she died, you knew it was coming the whole time. I know you mentioned too, you shed a tear and I've seen people on Instagram bawling their eyes out because of something that happened and I have a feeling it's her dying. I did not cry. I think I cried more when we got PETA back and he was like mind altered.

Jordan:

Yeah, but I think it's because, and, of course, like there's only so much you can do with one book versus three books and having like drawing this, like feeling towards a character, but I feel like I didn't really care for Lenore and maybe that's because I knew she was going to die. But I don't think we got enough of her and Hamish and like in that building and I know it did start with him already being with her and like being is like one love and stuff like that. But I think I was, I don't know, like I just I didn't have this like connection with her and I had more of a connection with Luella and like her sudden death and being like what, like come again and then like then more and maybe the it was because of the shock of it and I didn't expect her to die then. So I think when Eleanor died I was like, oh okay, like we knew it was coming.

Jordan:

I just I didn't care about like, how Like it was, like, oh, of course it's like the fucking gumdrops.

Fabienne:

Because I think the whole time too, you just accepted it.

Fabienne:

Then you just continued to read Like no, I completely actually understand and I kind of bum drops because I think the whole time you just continue to read like, no, I completely actually understand and I kind of agree with you too in that sense, because you kind of you see it like I said you know that it's going to happen, so also prepare for it in a way, um, but I think the entire point as well was that you, you like the reader, not you specifically but that you should feel for Hamish when she dies, not because she died for Hamish and I think that was done really well, because you can actually because of that, you know, he becomes who he becomes Exactly so.

Jordan:

It's like I know that was needed, because then you need to see like all right, like he's not a drinker before. So it's like I know that was needed, because then you need to see like all right, like he's not a drinker before. So something happens. And I like how she did that. And then like the secret to of her painting those like sayings and like him coming across it like okay, like I can't, I can't end my life because I need to stop the games, and I think I really like that he was able to stop the games and like Eleanor's promise is the thing that gets him through it. So I think that's cool. I liked that and don't get me wrong, it's still a five-star read for me. I just I didn't cry Like I was like ah, she dead five-star read for me.

Fabienne:

I just I didn't cry like I was like ah, she dead. Honestly, all the people like, who filmed themselves and then like, post all of their cry sessions on instagram one, I don't think you actually, I don't really believe people cry that hardcore when you know when they read the book. Also, why would you post, why would you post your? Why would you post this of yourself like crying, like bawling your eyes?

Jordan:

out. I don't get like don't get me wrong. Like I love Haymitch and I was so excited for his book, like I was so excited for it. But I was like, is it like? Did I just like not? Yeah, I'm like, did I just like miss something? Did I like not connect with these characters enough? But like I know, like I was obsessed with PETA and Katniss so like when that whole thing happened I was like devastated. But I know too, we got two full books of PETA and Katniss.

Fabienne:

And then I can't really compare, it's still.

Jordan:

Yeah, but that's why I kind of want to read President Snow's prequel, because I feel like, will I? But then I know too so many people have said that they hate his prequel. But I think what I think, why people hate, it is because they can't, they don't feel for him and I'm like but you're not supposed to. He's supposed to be the unlikable character because he's literally the evil villain in all the other books. So like you're not supposed to like him. So like that's the point.

Fabienne:

So I don't know.

Jordan:

Yeah. So I'm like I'm very curious. But I thought it was kind of cool Like we got in this one. We got Katniss's like dad, like Burloklok Everdeen, and then like in the epilogue when he talks about seeing Katniss as a baby and then Burlok dying in the mines, I was like no.

Fabienne:

I know, but actually I felt more in that moment than when Lenore died.

Jordan:

Yes, same, I was like oh.

Fabienne:

But honestly also him—sorry, I have to interject no say say it's now canon that we know that. Um uh, katniss is technically like a covey because her dad was a covey, or like hailed from a covey, hailed from covey, whatever however you want to call it yeah, or it's like because, without a lenore too.

Jordan:

So then it just like, and it connects the two with um lucy like was a covey, um, and how they're connected, which because, like I think it's also said too, that like katniss is like a like great, great, great. Something related to Lucy too, so I think it's like cool how she's like connecting these.

Fabienne:

I have seen that, but I think I've also seen. Okay, wait, let's write this down sort of Just in a hypothetical sense. So we have Lucy Greybeard, just in a hypothetical sense. So we have Lucy Greybeard. There is speculation that she is actually Lenore Dove's mother, because we don't see her mother in this prequel. Yes, and or is it? No, no, wait, no, no, no, I'm lying you. You are actually right, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm confusing two things. Um, in you, okay, so we have both seen the film, though like person snows prequel, right. Um, lucy gray baird has a friend, maude something, something like the the blonde curly girl. Oh, I thought.

Jordan:

Maud was like her part of her poem. Like her because all of the Covey girls are related with a flower, right and a color, so like, yes, lucy Eleanor Dove right and uh, color. So like yes, lucy, oh, oh, it was something eleanor right yeah, so I think maude was like part of her poem, because they were also but maude was also like an actual person in like a character I should say in. Yes, she was in the movie, but God has it stuck with me.

Jordan:

I actually I almost like bought the movie, like the Hunger Games movies, like when I was reading this on Prime and I asked Nick if we could watch it and he was like I don't want to watch it right now, so I didn't buy it yet, but I'm going to. Are they on Netflix? I think they're on Netflix. No, no, they were taken Netflix. I think they're on Netflix. No, no, they were taken off. Like, now they're only for like, probably because I mean they were on Netflix forever. So I actually watched them like a couple like before, right before they left Netflix, I watched all of them, but now it's like no, no, I want to like watch them again.

Fabienne:

Anyways, we, we, we, the family ties aren't really that important. What is important, maceley, how she died, very gruesome, Like with I don't know, like the pelicans that are not pelicans, but that was actually so horrific.

Jordan:

Yes, that like cause it's like ah, I like you also knew that, like everybody was going to die, but like it was one of those things that I was like I was very curious like what was going to happen, and I'm so happy. They like found like each other, and I love that. They were like he was like okay, good night sis. I love that. And then the fact like it was like yeah, just the way it was going to be because I think it hurt more the fact that he was like no, I'm going to stay here. And they were planning on parting ways, and then it was like okay, let's share one more meal. And then she gets attacked.

Jordan:

I know Also, we felt so much more in that moment than when lenore again died, literally, honestly, even when lulu, like, put her face in the oh my god, and am ampered, ampered oh my god, with the squirrel alive by squirrels.

Jordan:

And I think it's just like you know too, because, like beady, like knew his son was going to die, and then you're like waiting for it. So it's like you, these different things like like it and I don't know what it is, because it's like you knew all of those people were gonna die too. So it's like I knew lenore was gonna die, but like these other people I also knew were gonna die, but it hurt worse.

Fabienne:

I know, because you don't know how right we didn't know, how we also didn't know how?

Jordan:

Yeah, but we didn't know how Lenore was going to die too. I think also I might have just assumed he was going to come back to her being dead.

Fabienne:

Yeah. Maybe, I think I don't know. No, I expect that actually too.

Jordan:

You know that I actually do you know, also like being in the burning house with his off with his ma, and that hurt more. I don't know. I actually don't like the book at all. He literally lost everybody, which is fuck, but I also, so it kind of like makes makes me feel, no, I like his relationship with Elfie too, like, and I think it kind of portrays like I think Haymitch, like and Elfie in the Hunger Games did a really good job of like that relationship, like that relationship.

Jordan:

But I think it's funny because, like when she helps dress him and she's like waiting with him for like the interview and stuff like that after winning the games, and she's like what happened to you was awful, and he's like, yeah, and then like all this stuff and he agrees, and then she's like, but I think the Hunger Games are very much needed, and he's like, and you lost me.

Jordan:

I was like, oh my God, yes, and I needed. And he's like, and you lost me. I was like, oh my god, yes, and I thought I don't know like, I liked that like whole part, like, and I think that just like sums up their relationship so well and it's even portrayed that way in the hunger games, which clearly like she can go back and like, do that, but I, I, I really like, I don't know like I will die on the hill. That, like the hunger games and even the prequel President Sano's prequel is like the perfect book to film adaptation, like both can stand on their own and I think they complement each other really well and I think they did such a good job with both of those that I don't know. I, I love everything that is the Hunger Games.

Fabienne:

Yeah, what? I also sorry this now sounds like I didn't listen to you at all, but I did, I swear. But I also want to note on how like okay, so listen, when the Hunger Games came out, came out, it was very much an era. You know, there's this one chosen person who's going to save the world, and then katniss aberdeen was that person.

Fabienne:

But what I like when you read or like watch the movies, but then you have read slash, watched um the song of snakes and songbirds or whatever, and then you've read this book and turns out every single person or like there is always a person who has tried to unravel the system that is the hunger games. Like you know, like to take down the hunger games from like the inside. There's always people, there's always like this rebellion going on. There's always like the people who are with a resistance type of group, um, but, like heaven's be said, we just need someone who is luckier, we need someone who has like an army, um, standing in. You know, like behind them we have, and I really did love reading that.

Fabienne:

How I mean, obviously you can get, get this, it's just like you know. Like it it's a girl in a dystopian novel and of course she's like the chosen one and she actually, you know, manages to get the job done, obviously like with all. But I love to see how it's not just a one time thing, I love to see how it also with Lucy Greybeard, and I also loved how it was with Heaven's Gate and, yes, and with Haymitch.

Jordan:

And if you think about it too, because I was thinking, because they're trying to break it and they don't know, they don't understand the arena, so it's like everybody's guessing.

Jordan:

But if you think about it, because even Katniss and Peeta didn't break the game, they didn't break anything. And because literally a year later in Catching Fire, there's a whole nother, there's a quarter quell, but I think, with the luck of the quarter quell pulling from the tributes already, or the yeah, from the win, the victors, um, yeah, that then it was all these people that had previously won and I mean at the time of like the beginning, of like catching fire, you don't know that they also like, don't like the hunger games and what it stands for. But like all these people are like now you can put them together because like beady, like he, he was too smart to kill, so like you put him in the hunger games. And then wiris, like her brain is like a genius, I mean, they're both from district three, so it like makes sense. But like the fact that you put all these people like these victors, it was literally luck. Like they were saying like like.

Jordan:

Hey, it wasn't lucky enough, but putting all of them in it because like and what I think I agree with you like it's always like one person that needs to like save the world. But if you think about it like Katniss had no idea any of that was going on. Like she no-transcript, I volunteer as tribute. Then there's the um, uh, the hunger games where she's like forced back into it for catching fire. Then there's like basically she had to go on site to like one of the bombings that President Snow orchestrated and was like then she could do it like she. So I like that it's not her behind everything head person, because everybody can get behind her, because they feel for her in the sense of like okay, she volunteered as tribute for her sister, because she loves her sister. Like then, like no one wants to be part of these games, like anybody in the districts, like no one wants to die.

Jordan:

So I think it's kind of cool how it is portrayed, like how su suzanne collins portrays it as in like what you were saying is it literally is just luck because? And then they're like lucky that they get district 13. So I think it's kind of. I think it's a different way of going about saving the world, because then if you think about it, like with um, I, I'm just thinking like, uh, sarah j moss, like throne of glass granted, it is a whole different dynamic because that is like fantasy but like aileen literally knows exactly what she's doing, like she is the one stopping and she's the one orchestrating it all, which, and again, is its own thing, and like that's amazing. But I, I just like that katniss is like somebody that just has actually no clue, but she has, like this grand team behind her, who?

Fabienne:

exactly, just like falls into it so ironically um, she's actually like a puppet in their game. What?

Jordan:

she actually like exactly doesn't want to be when it comes to the hunger games itself and then like so there's a little irony there too that that is true because, like, they're using her because, remember, they like dressed her up in mockingjay like to be this like strong person with all this makeup and they're like you can't do, like no one's gonna get bought, like everyone like this is a catnip.

Fabienne:

And then he throws a bottle.

Jordan:

Yeah, exactly. And then like too, with the ending too, where, like the president of District 13, whatever her name is like she wanted to host another, like one more Hunger Games, but with all the capital, people, and Katniss was like what the fuck? Mm-hmm.

Fabienne:

So I like.

Jordan:

I don't know like I think her name was coin, by the way yes, madam, madam wait, are we sure yeah?

Fabienne:

because I think the yeah, because I think the entire thing is that, um, her and snow are like two sides of the same coin. I think that's why she was named coin, because susan is really like you know really big on like symbolism and also greek mythology. Actually, did you know that she based, like the entire books of the hunger games on, I think, the myth of the king of crete and then like his war in athens? I think I mean, you're the greek mythology person among us, between us I had.

Jordan:

No, I didn't know, I didn't know, I didn't know that I think I read that somewhere.

Fabienne:

Isn't there like a myth in greek mythology where it's like I don't know either like the king of Crete has like something going on with like Athens, and so Athens has to send like x many um of its children to Crete, and then they have to like slaughter, I don't know something. It's very vague. I think I read, I read this somewhere somewhere that you would that you kind kind of base it on that myth, but I'm not sure now.

Jordan:

Maybe I actually haven't heard of that myth, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. Sorry, I was trying to go through the blurbs to see if I could see President Coyne or Madam Coyne or whatever she's called, but I think they did a good job in the description by not giving away too many things, Because it's like even the third one's like against all odds. Katniss Everdeen has survived the Hunger Games twice, but I think that's like Against all odds, huh. But I like that because.

Jordan:

I've definitely had blurbs where I haven't finished the first book and I'm already looking at the second book, and then I get spoiled for something because they put something that I would have wished they did not. But all I know is I finished this book and now I really want to read the Hunger Games and President Snow's prequel. Did you ever read that?

Fabienne:

No, I did not, because I don't. So the thing is, when it came out in, I want to say 2019, 2020, I think right before covid actually may 2020 so during oh, again, you really do know your dates, christ if I like look at things and like it, it sticks yeah yeah. So when it came out, I was like do I have the concentration span to read this? I'm like, and also it's about snow, do I want? Do I want to like him?

Jordan:

like, no, exactly like I had no interest in reading him, like the whole time he's been out. But then, of course, when the movie came out, I was like, well, I love the hunger games, like I'm, of course, I'm gonna go watch it and it was so good. But the thing is is like I finished that movie and I still had no interest in reading the book. It wasn't until I finished this bad boy that I'm like that you were like maybe I should, yeah, like maybe I do want to read it because I think she just proves that like she's still like Suzanne Collins is still like amazing writer in the world of Hunger Games. Like she, all she has is the Hunger Games. She hasn't written anything else. Not that she needs to. I think she could live off of the royalties, this is like her thing.

Fabienne:

And oh yeah, definitely that girl is packed and loaded.

Jordan:

Oh yeah, oh yeah, that girl's packed and loaded oh yeah, oh yeah, which I think kind of like. I was reading the about the author or the acknowledgments or something at the end of this one and she talks about how she's like they like she dedicated this book to, or the first book to, somebody who unfortunately passed away in the summer of 2024. And she was saying that they co-wrote shows together. So I was like maybe this is why the movie has done so well. It's like she wrote this book in mind, thinking that there could be a movie because, like, if you think about it, it's not, it's dystopian, but it like the hunger games translate well into a movie format because it's nothing, it's not too complicated.

Jordan:

It's like I don't know, like. So I feel like and because, if you think to like, I didn't know this because I've only read the first Divergent book and I couldn't get into like the second book, and then I know there's like four or three or four or whatever like the second book. And then I know there's like four or three or four or whatever. But I was watching the movies and I watched the first one, which I loved, the first one, and then the second one. I was like this kind of sucks, and then I think there's a third one, but they stopped because it never got another one, but because it didn't do that well. But I think it got like. As I'm watching that, i'm'm like I think that got too sci-fi, fantasy ask that. Then it just became too complicated and nobody could follow. But the trilogy never does that.

Fabienne:

So I think it it ends up being a very easy to comprehend like movie wise, that it's not too like, it's not too complicated also they changed the entire ending and I think that's also like a potential thing why they didn't go through, because you said it didn't do well, but also they changed the ending of book three and the adaptation like a huge thing for the hunger games no, no, no, for like the divergent series oh really, I didn't.

Jordan:

Well, no, I thought they were planning on I. I never finished reading it, so I have no idea what they do. You want to know? Do you want to do? You want to? Yes?

Fabienne:

yes, okay, spoiler for the divergent series. So I okay, let me preface this by saying that I haven't read the series, but I went down, like you know, like a deep dive of stories. Like you know, um went like, fell down a rabbit hole, um, but the third movie, um, and I don't even know how it ended. Actually I guess that tris like the main character. She dies in the series, in the books okay.

Jordan:

So I mean, I did know that, but I think it's because. But I think it's because the movie didn't end that way, because the way it ended it almost seemed like there was supposed to be a whole nother movie, and I think there's also like there's also a whole, like an entire different box, but then four actually ends up with christina I don't know who that is that was like her best friend zoe kravitz, whatever her name is in the movies zoe kravitz is in the movies.

Fabienne:

Yeah and her dad, ironically, is in Hunger Games.

Jordan:

I was just going to say he's Sina.

Fabienne:

Well, he lucked out, he did the better oh my God Same. He lucked out. He got the bigger. Yeah, sorry, yes, go I literally okay.

Jordan:

going back to the Hunger Games, they literally cast it so fucking well, like the trilogy.

Fabienne:

They did.

Jordan:

They literally fucking well, like the trilogy. Like they, literally I I have literally no bad things to say about this movie or movies, like films or whatever, like I think everything was so like I watch those movies all the time, like again, which is why I need to buy them, because I can't watch them on netflix anymore but I like I, I remember okay, so like this would have been. I was like a freshman in college. So like that's like the first time I ever read this and this is like the series that got me back into reading. So like this series alone just has a special place in my heart.

Jordan:

But yeah I remember being at the theater like a year before it came out, so like 18 year old me, and a preview for it comes on and I had seen the x-men and I like I was a josh hutcherson fan, so like seeing, of course jennifer lawrence and josh hutcherson in it, that I was like, oh my god, what is this like? And it looked so good and I was like, oh my god, I like I need to see. But of course this was it wasn't out yet and it was just like one of those like previews, like coming soon type thing, and I was like what is? And then it said, like based off the book, by based off the novel by Susan Collins, and I was like what that?

Jordan:

I I went and then I bought the first book and I devoured it, and then I bought the next two, devoured those, and I was like, oh my gosh, like now I really couldn't wait until this film came out. And that's what got me into like reading all about it because, like they did so much publicity for the first one, for like the girls those movie posters.

Jordan:

They were so good so good, good, like, and then even at like different magazines, like that magazines picked it up for just all about the Hunger Games, like I had so many of those magazines and they were interviewing Gary Ross who was the director, interviewing like all the different like district people, like I remember, like Alexander Lugwig, I think is his name, he's like either District 1 or District 2.

Fabienne:

But they interviewed Very quickly, very quickly. I was so in love with that guy when I was younger. I saw him in a TV show way before the Hunger Games came out, and then I realized, obviously you only know Jay with a beard, but listen to this, when he was younger and he had no beard, he has like the same exact nose as this alexander guy and it is the cutest but also like the hottest thing. So there's, there was this trend like a while back on instagram where you were showing like off your, you know, like your jay is alexander lottwick wait, say that again, say that again.

Fabienne:

It cut you off so there was this um trend going like yes, on instagram where it was like show your teenage crotch and then your current partner. And had I done that? Jay is except like, exactly like the hunger games, alexander you you should have done that.

Jordan:

So before. This is literally all before this film came out, and I just like to point out I was 18. Okay, like, cut me some slack, but like Alexander Ludwig was like, he also was a singer, so he had this like one song that he released and I would listen to it on my runs over and over again. Like I can't begin to explain the obsession I had of these films that I was like and the fact so like because dennis quaid's son is in it. He's like one of the district two people, or district one, yeah, whatever I I get them like all mixed up, but like I, like I the way I just became obsessed with like everything about it, and I had one of the mockingjay pins that I bought off of etsy. Like I shut up.

Jordan:

You did not, you did not that I yes, not that I like wore it, but I had it, so it was like just in my room.

Fabienne:

You can be honest, you can be honest. You can be honest.

Jordan:

Tell, tell the people that you just wore oh my god, just imagine if I like wore it all the time. No, but I had it like sitting on my dresser because I was.

Fabienne:

I was like that obsessed with like the books, the film would you have like your hair braided that like the same style too, did you know? Because?

Jordan:

no because, I do not. I do not look good with that hairstyle, so, like I would, I couldn't.

Fabienne:

I was like no I, but I went through like a kid has ever deemed braid, uh, braid phase I, I, I get that, but yeah, that definitely was not me.

Jordan:

I tried it, I tried it and I was like oh no, no no, no, not for me no, not for me, but oh my god, I love those. I love those films, I love those books, I love this book.

Fabienne:

That's why I feel like I have to read president snow should I, but you don't think you do, then maybe I mean I was just gonna say I'm a follower, right? I mean I've talked about this week before and then I gotta do so I do it, you gotta do it, we all gotta do it.

Jordan:

I don't know like do it. You got to do it.

Fabienne:

We all got to do it.

Jordan:

I don't know Like right Cause then, and then like we have them both.

Fabienne:

Well then, I feel like we're doing it backwards. You should have read that one first, I know.

Jordan:

I know I was. That's what I was thinking. I was like in the middle of this and I was like fuck, should I have read then, this one then go into the Hunger Games. But eh you win some you lose some.

Fabienne:

True, true. I wanted to say something About these bets. What was this guy like? I want to say Marcus. It's not Marcus, the other guy who got reaped too.

Jordan:

Wyatt.

Fabienne:

Why did I say Marcus? Do we see like any like remnants of him or like of his like in the actual Hunger Games trilogy?

Jordan:

like I don't think so, because there was never, ever. I like I kind of thought was curious, because he was like an odds man and it never really explained may the odds be ever in your favor that I was wondering if they coined that term from him. But it actually sounded like they coined that term before him, like at the start of the Hunger Games, which that actually kind of confused me because and maybe because I didn't fully I didn't read President Snow's story, but I was like wait, these ages aren't matching up, because I thought President Snow was the one that started the Hunger Games, but then it later in this book he talks about how President Snow was 18 for the 10th annual Hunger Games and maybe that's when they just started decided to start filming it. I don't really know why, because you know what I mean, like I couldn't figure out that storyline totally.

Jordan:

So I don't know, because I from the movies I got.

Fabienne:

I thought he started the hunger games. No um, the hunger games were started by this something, something high, highbottom. Oh, like the guy from Lannisters and again Game of Thrones. He was Dean Highbottom in the movie. Obviously, all the information that Snow is pretty cool is from the movie. He started the Hunger Games because of the uprising of the districts against the capital.

Jordan:

Because there was that war. Yes, so I remember the war happening.

Fabienne:

Yeah, but I don't think that Snow was eight when the war was happening, but then he must have been eight when the first Hunger Games were held. Yeah, yeah, and then, 10 years later, he's in the Academy.

Jordan:

Yeah, but I know he had some sort of idea, so maybe it was to televise it and to make it a spectacle. Maybe that's what his thing was.

Fabienne:

It was already televised, but people lost interest, they didn't watch it anymore, like the numbers went down. And then it was an assignment for the people of the academy. I like the capital members um to come up with ideas to make it more of a reality, show of more of it.

Fabienne:

Like to be you know like a big hit yeah, and then he came with ideas and he came like with an entire list of ideas towards this um, viola davis, like the, the head game maker in that movie, um, and I think they installed or like implemented as many ideas in this for in this first um well, not first, but in like um the 10th hunger games, and then I think that just like went on with all these ideas.

Jordan:

Okay, that that I remember that, like it was. When you said losing numbers, I was like, oh yes, that I remember, because I think he like was like naked. I think one of his things was essentially like the mutts, like create things to, like help speed things along, like essentially help like create a winner instead of like leaving it to like the kids.

Fabienne:

It almost seemed like like they like the game makers need to 18 for the 10th, and this was hamish's hunger games, which was the 50th because it was a quarter quell.

Jordan:

The second but then it was, but it almost it made it seem like he was 58, I think the quarter quell was. Yeah, I think the quarter quell was like 40. It was weird because, like the timelines totally didn't make sense, but yet the second quarter quell, or no, the third quarter quell was the 75th. So I don't fully understand that timeline, but he did make because, like it, hamish did make a point to say like okay, if, subtracting the, like 58 and he would have been 18 and like that's, like that would have been him on that video screen that Lucy was pulling on stage, so he would have been 18. So I feel like the quarter quell must have been like the, the second quarter quell must have been the 40th, the second quarter quell must have been the 40th, and that's what kind of like Haymitch was saying, which didn't fully make sense because I figured it would have been the 50th, like a quarter quell. Yeah a quarter 25.

Jordan:

Exactly, exactly, but no, apparently it was the 40th. Unless that was just like an error.

Fabienne:

Maybe Haymish was confused. Maybe that's a thing that happens with characters.

Jordan:

Maybe that makes sense.

Fabienne:

Because the third quarticle definitely was the 75th and that was when Ketnes and Peter, because that was 25 years later. Curious Anyways.

Jordan:

Ow fuck, oh no years later.

Fabienne:

hmm, curious anyways, oh fuck, oh no, oh, my funny bone. Oh, it's not so funny, not so funny, not so funny. No, but anyways, I hate. Love this book. Heads to four and a half stars. I love this book.

Jordan:

I just didn't cry no, okay, fair, but I?

Fabienne:

I just needed to say that uh, do you have anything else to say on the matter? Because we are way past our bedtime.

Jordan:

I feel like I do not have anything else on the matter.

Fabienne:

Okay, I don't want to cut this off like so abruptly, but it's been an hour, I feel like I love you all fire. I love you all fire. That was honestly I love.

Jordan:

I love the expression I love the expression Me too, me too, but yeah, no, I do too.

Fabienne:

And may the odds be forever in your face.

Jordan:

Couldn't have said it better.

Fabienne:

Thank you so much for listening. And please don't forget to rate and review wherever you can find us, so catch you next time.

Jordan:

Bye.